Originally posted by Bosse de NageGreeted as a liberator - with flowers!
I'm sure they'll welcome your "protection" like the Iraqis welcomed the US Marines.
You're not likening your allies to the Iraqi people, are you? Suffering under the yoke of a despotic tyrant ... that would make you ... Sad...?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungNobody has pointed out that the easiest way for the Ikko Ikki and Uesugi to gain victory would simply be to turn on their allies and snap up their territories in a dirty, underhand sneak attack. That isn't going to happen.
Which means that anyone who rebels in the north will have some time. They'll be safe from immediate destruction.
It should be obvious that rebelling against the Uesugi would be quite a foolish thing to do. I would be forced to leave Hosokawa to his own devices for a while, it is true. I don't think defending his citadel until I return should be too difficult for him. Then I would be free to consecrate on crushing this hypothetical rebellion. The additional land would go to fund my interrupted campaign against you--unless you think you can simply roll up everything that stands between you and me in a trice.
As for the victory conditions, there are permutations that you have not considered.
Now please, continue telling my allies how stupid they are for helping me. An excellent intra- and meta-game strategy! People just love being abused.
Originally posted by Bosse de NageThe Ito fought 3 mighty battles involving scout sampans this turn ... one had the misfortune of running into the mighty Uesugi/Hosokawa fleet ... cowering behind Shikoku!
I have neglected to mention a battle of great significance: Uesugi and Ito sanpans battling it out in the Tottori Sea...sadly, neither survived the battle.
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageWhat nonsense! If you turn on your "allies", you'd lose virtually all your fief income plus you'd have to split your forces. You couldn't put everything against either side; there's transportation to consider as well.
Nobody has pointed out that the easiest way for the Ikko Ikki and Uesugi to gain victory would simply be to turn on their allies and snap up their territories in a dirty, underhand sneak attack. That isn't going to happen.
It should be obvious that rebelling against the Uesugi would be quite a foolish thing to do. I would be forced to leave Hosokaw are for helping me. An excellent intra- and meta-game strategy! People just love being abused.
Please explain the "permutations" of the victory conditions that only you seem to have figured out. I gave my analysis above which plainly shows that you and the Ikko Ikki have a strong incentive to declare together and completely leave out your "allies".
If people can't handle the truth that's their problem.
Originally posted by no1marauderThere is more than one way to skin a rebellious snake in the grass Kyushu lord.
What nonsense! If you turn on your "allies", you'd lose virtually all your fief income plus you'd have to split your forces. You couldn't put everything against either side; there's transportation to consider as well.
Please explain the "permutations" of the victory conditions that only you seem to have figured out. I gave my analysis above ...[text shortened]... out your "allies".
If people can't handle the truth that's their problem.
You seem to be missing a number of key points here No1, mainly that winning and being a part of the victory coalition is not the be all and end all that it appears to be for you. The Uesugi and Ikko Ikki have been nothing but honourable in the dealings with our vassals, yet you try to have them break their allegiance with us - surely the signs of a trustworthy lord.
The only ones helped by anyone revolting is you and your alliance. A point you dont seem to be mentioning. The revolter is destroyed & you get stronger as we have to divert attention elsewhere. How is this good for them No1? It is good to see you being so charitable.
Originally posted by nook7So your vassals shouldn't play to win, but you should.
There is more than one way to skin a rebellious snake in the grass Kyushu lord.
You seem to be missing a number of key points here No1, mainly that winning and being a part of the victory coalition is not the be all and end all that it appears to be for you. The Uesugi and Ikko Ikki have been nothing but honourable in the dealings with our vassals, yet you ...[text shortened]... t attention elsewhere. How is this good for them No1? It is good to see you being so charitable.
It would depend on what and how many vassals revolted, wouldn't it? Some are in far better positions than others. At any rate, none will win if they don't revolt. If they're happy with that, so be it. I would consider it pretty boring to do nothing but attack bots for a bunch of turns like some seem destined to do.
Originally posted by no1marauderThat is two fair points that you make.
So your vassals shouldn't play to win, but you should.
It would depend on what and how many vassals revolted, wouldn't it? Some are in far better positions than others. At any rate, none will win if they don't revolt. If they're happy with that, so be it. I would consider it pretty boring to do nothing but attack bots for a bunch of turns like some seem destined to do.
l of course am acting in my interests whilst hoping that my interests are in line enough with my vassals and allies.
The victory conditions are for the end of the game; from the start until that time, the roles of various people can make or break the game for a number of participants. You seem focused on the the end of the game with your comments.
From my side there has been little talk of the end as we are not there yet. And in terms of sharing in victory, it is of little consequence to me to share in victory with others who have helped me achieve it. l am sure that my vassals would vouch for me when l say l share my profits from conquests. l do not see any reason why the victors cannot include more than the Uesugi and Ikko Ikki (or others for that matter)
Originally posted by nook7It is no more logical to "not worry about" the victory conditions in these games then it would be to not look for checkmates in chess. You and the Uesugi are about 225 GPV from declaring victory and you have gained 150 GPV between you in the last two turns. If something doesn't happen soon to reverse your momentum your eventual victory is a foregone conclusion. You may delay that victory to allow others in (of course ALL your vassals can't be included) but that will be left totally in your hands.
That is two fair points that you make.
l of course am acting in my interests whilst hoping that my interests are in line enough with my vassals and allies.
The victory conditions are for the end of the game; from the start until that time, the roles of various people can make or break the game for a number of participants. You seem focused on the the end ...[text shortened]... on why the victors cannot include more than the Uesugi and Ikko Ikki (or others for that matter)
In the Galactic Warlords game I'm playing, three realms starting working together very early and got within striking distance of declaring victory. Seeing this a coalition of 5 powers banded together, settled a few wars between them and attacked the three (who also have a couple of minor allies). That game is very much up in the air as to who will win on the 24th turn. And like in our NE game there is at least a reasonable parity between the forces. Of course you want to maintain your overwhelming superiority in this game and it's probable you'll be able to do so. But the game would be a little more interesting if it didn't wind up so one sided.
Originally posted by no1marauderAgain a valid point, l suppose the alternative is not so good as you havea cosy 3 way coalition in place so anyone breaking ours is on their own.
It is no more logical to "not worry about" the victory conditions in these games then it would be to not look for checkmates in chess. You and the Uesugi are about 225 GPV from declaring victory and you have gained 150 GPV between you in the last two turns. If something doesn't happen soon to reverse your momentum your eventual victory is a foregone conc ...[text shortened]... o so. But the game would be a little more interesting if it didn't wind up so one sided.