- Joined
- 05 Aug 04
- Moves
- 243565
Your lucky you have the death penalty in the states. In the UK we just release them on licence so they can kill again. But they only get 3 chances........And then they get tagged!!!
Seriously, this guy will get his just reward soon.
The unfortunate thing is that he almost certainly wont suffer.
2 edits
Originally posted by XanthosNZProve to us that the execution of the death penalty is in fact more expensive than supporting a life in prison.
Actually life in prison is cheaper than performing the death penalty. Strange but true!
And to the person claiming that the death penalty acts as a deterrent, prove it.
Your words ring somewhat hollow.
And as far as the death penalty being a deterrent, it is. The person we put down will never again roam this country and commit his/her's atrocities upon the good and honorable citizens again.
Put a bandage on your bleeding heart X.
Originally posted by XanthosNZIt is impossible for a person who is put to death, to continue his career in crime.
Actually life in prison is cheaper than performing the death penalty. Strange but true!
And to the person claiming that the death penalty acts as a deterrent, prove it.
1 edit
Originally posted by NordlysGood question and hotly debated. My position is that God gave the principle of capital punishment for certain crimes even before the institution of the Old Testament laws. I do not see anything in the New Testament that contains new instructions that would eliminate the death penalty. When Jesus told us to love our enemies, he was speaking to us as individuals, not negating the rights of government to rule, nor was he eliminating the consequences for our actions. Jesus loved the murderer in this case enough to die for him, but that does not mean there will not be a price to pay for his actions. God forgave David for his sins but he still had to pay a price. Jesus forgave the thief on the cross, but he (Jesus) didn’t take him (the thief) off of it. God instituted human government. Civil leaders are his instruments whether they are aware of it or not, and will someday have to answer to God if they do not administer justice fairly. Punishment is not vengeance; it is paying the consequences for your actions.
How do you reconcile your desire for revenge with your Christian beliefs?
Originally posted by Frank Burnshttp://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html
Prove to us that the execution of the death penalty is in fact more expensive than supporting a life in prison.
Your words ring somewhat hollow.
And as far as the death penalty being a deterrent, it is. The person we put down will never again roam this country and commit his/her's atrocities upon the good and honorable citizens again.
Put a bandage on your bleeding heart X.
And your second statement actually doesn't say anything about the death penalty acting as a deterrent.
Originally posted by masscatHi masscat.
Good question and hotly debated. My position is that God gave the principle of capital punishment for certain crimes even before the institution of the Old Testament laws. I do not see anything in the New Testament that contains new instructions that would eliminate the death penalty.
What a horrendous story. Everyone (regardless of their views on the death penalty) reading your original post must feel revulsion for what happened and can surely understand the pain that you (and others who knew those who died) are feeling.
A previous poster implied you are a Christian, so I have a question (and this is genuine, not an attempt to be provocative or offensive).
Somewhat coincidentally, a friend and I were looking through the Old Testament a couple of weeks ago and read about the list of things that 'deserve' the death penalty in Leviticus. These included (IIRC) disrespecting your parents, profaning the Sabbath, desecrating a burial ground, having sex with various relatives (some of whom are in-laws rather than blood-relatives), adultery, homosexual sex, zoophilia.
We wondered whether the New Testament cancelled any of these out but didn't have time to search further.
We decided eventually that because these 'crimes' clearly didn't merit the death penalty then quoting 'an eye for an eye' (also Old Testament) in favour of the death pen would be wrong.
Any thoughts?
Originally posted by Monty348Typical moronic assertion.
Of course, the five innocent victims wouldn't be brought back, but society would be spared the cost of supporting this sociopath for the rest of his life: housing him, guarding him, feeding him, clothing him, tending to his medical needs, providing him with entertainment, with a library, with free lawyers, and on and on.
Hundreds of thousands of dollar ...[text shortened]... Don't confuse revenge with justice. Executing this evil scum would solve a lot and save a lot.
"Hear, hear! I pay my taxes!"
The first idiotic excuse that come out of the mouth of most americans.
They seem to think that they are the only people that pay taxes, and doing so, they are better persons.
Do you know what? I pay my taxes too. And if my money goes to feed and dress people in jail for life, I don't care.
I don't buy with my hard earned money the "right" to scratch my navel while drinking beer and looking the telly.
I want to pay a better way of life for those who are in need of it.
Originally posted by XanthosNZ"The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level."
http://www.mindspring.com/~phporter/econ.html
And your second statement actually doesn't say anything about the death penalty acting as a deterrent.
The website you offered has built its entire idea on the cost relative to the failures of the justice system, not reality. With the public footing the bill for (seemingly) countless appeals chewing up miles and miles of asphalt on both sides of the yellow line, it is no wonder the road to justice seems so costly.
If we were to return to jury-derived justice, the swiftness of their verdicts and the surety of their wisdom would act as cautionary tales to would-be scum plotting likewise. Nowadays, the criminals know any recompence for their actions is so far removed in time and reality as to be impotent.
I'm interested on why the death penalty is more expensive than a life in prison. I realize that life in prison is not so expensive since many costs (food, clothes, etc.) are very small with such a large population. But I naively imagined that a death penalty would only cost the inyection and the time for the staff on the day of execution.
My first google result pointed me to:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=7&did=918
Here it says that the cost of carrying out a death sentence were HALF of those to carrying out a non death sentence in a comparable case (as I imagined). The excess cost of the death penalty comes in the pretrial, trial, and appeals... but why? How is a death penalty trial more expensive than a life sentence trial?
Trad
Originally posted by FreakyKBHAre you for the execution of prisoners who are later proven by DNA evidence to be innocent? There is a movement that re-tries old cases with new DNA technology and quite a number of them are subsequently proven to have been innocent in spite of the fact they went through a jury trial. There are also many cases where the police are determined or the prosecution is determined before the trial of a person's guilt and suppress evidence contrary to their prosecution. That happens too many times for me to be comfortable with executions. With life imprisonment at least the accused has a chance maybe decades later to prove his innocence. If he is executed there is no chance for him to prove innocence except by third parties who here about the case years later and eventually prove his innocence but way too late to save the accused. These are not theoretical concerns, they happen all too often, a jury pronounces someone guilty and bang, the whole country assumes they are guilty and everyone is relieved another animal is executed only to find out years later he was innocent and the real animal roaming the streets and continues killing. So my objection is the faulty nature of the trial system and work needs to be done to force fairness from prosecutors and police. When my son was attacked by a whole racist family here in Slatington, he was run down on his bicycle, hit not very hard but enough to get knocked off the bike and then proceeded to be beaten by this family, the mother yelling 'hey nigger, how does it feel to be called nigger, nigger' etc., when in fact he is our adopted hispanic son.
"The death penalty costs California $90 million annually beyond the ordinary costs of the justice system - $78 million of that total is incurred at the trial level."
The website you offered has built its entire idea on the cost relative to the failures of the justice system, not reality. With the public footing the bill for (seemingly) countless appeal ...[text shortened]... know any recompence for their actions is so far removed in time and reality as to be impotent.
They got off with community service, like 100 hours of picking garbage off the road or some such. This happened in a very white community and we could not even get people interested for several months when we finally got ahold of an assistant prosecuter who listened. Up to that point it was unclear if they would have ever even been charged with anything more than disturbing the peace, which was the officers actual charge ATT. The new prosecutor added assault with a deadly weapon and ethnic intimidation and they actually plead guilty but were just given a slap on the wrist and we were told by the judge to not have any contact with these nazi's (they live right across the street). So I have personal experience with indifferant law enforcement, they do whatever they deem the easiest thing ATT.
Originally posted by DiapasonActually it’s a very good question, and you will find Christians divided on the subject. So this is MY opinion; nothing more.
Hi masscat.
What a horrendous story. Everyone (regardless of their views on the death penalty) reading your original post must feel revulsion for what happened and can surely understand the pain that you (and others who knew those who died) are feeling.
A previous poster implied you are a Christian, so I have a question (and this is genuine, not an att ...[text shortened]... an eye' (also Old Testament) in favour of the death pen would be wrong.
Any thoughts?
Granted some of the crimes the OT says merit the death penalty wouldn’t be considered crimes today. But because God did not consult with me to see what my opinion was when He made the rules I cannot debate that point. In fact that was one of Jesus’ complaints against the Pharisees. If they didn’t like the rules God laid down, they made up one to get around it. And, yes, sometimes Christians try to do the same thing, but if God said it's wrong, it's still wrong.
I think you have to make a distinction as to what you mean when you say “law.” Are you talking about the rules God laid down telling us how he expects us to conduct our personal life, or are you talking about the laws on how we are to approach God and be justified in his sight? Sin (doing what God said don’t do even if we disagree with him) will always be wrong and there will always be a penalty to be paid. For example, God said murder was wrong and you could expect to be put to death for it. It seems to me that there must be a distinction therefore between “murder” and the “execution” of a murderer. When someone was put to death by stoning in the OT, the stone throwers were not considered murderers. On the other hand, if you are talking about the “laws” on how we approach God, we are no longer bound, through faith in Christ, to have to make animal sacrifices, observe a lot of rituals as to what we eat and how we worship. Instead, through faith in Christ, we are told in Hebrews “Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” Those laws have been abolished.
Originally posted by sonhouseI am for the proposition that anyone who is found guilty of false witness to receive whatever befell the person innocent of the original charges.
Are you for the execution of prisoners who are later proven by DNA evidence to be innocent? There is a movement that re-tries old cases with new DNA technology and quite a number of them are subsequently proven to have been innocent in spite of the fact they went through a jury trial. There are also many cases where the police are determined or the prosecut ...[text shortened]... perience with indifferant law enforcement, they do whatever they deem the easiest thing ATT.