09 Apr 13
I was too young in 1970 to pay much attention to the trial of the Manson “family” murderers. But fifteen years later I came across prosecutor Bugliosi’s book ‘Helter Skelter,’ and found it fascinating. YouTube has a number of items on the murders, including this:
At 6:25 in the video, notice that a newspaper page had three abutting articles about crimes (two sets of murders one day apart, and a car-theft ring) and the Manson family was involved in all three!
One member of the Manson family, Lynette Fromme, went to prison a few years later for pointing a loaded handgun at President Ford.
There is a fringe theory that Manson family member Bruce Davis is the Zodiac killer:
I didn’t know until I saw this today at YouTube that Shorty Shea’s body was found:
Are these murders known much outside the USA? Or inside the USA among people under 30 years of age?
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09 Apr 13
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIA friend and I had driven to Vancouver from Montreal, to visit his girlfriend who was going to UBC, around the time of the murders. We had to be back in Montreal for the day after labour day. We left on the friday. While driving through Saskatchewan late at night we were pulled over by a police cruiser (RCMP). When the policemen approached from both sides of the car they seemed very tentative. Well it turned out that they were rumors that the Tate Killers were in Canada and driving a stolen car just like ours. Needless to say it wasn't us.
I was too young in 1970 to pay much attention to the trial of the Manson “family” murderers. But fifteen years later I came across prosecutor Bugliosi’s book ‘Helter Skelter,’ and found it fascinating. YouTube has a number of items on the murders, including this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRYLzqoekMg
At 6:25 in the video, notice that a newsp ...[text shortened]... these murders known much outside the USA? Or inside the USA among people under 30 years of age?
09 Apr 13
2 edits
Originally posted by Great Big SteesThey may have thought you could be drug dealer Pic Dawson. The letters PIG written in blood on the door of the Tate house were first thought to be PIC, since he had made threats against an occupant of that house.
Well it turned out that they were rumors that the Tate Killers were in Canada and driving a stolen car just like ours.
I see from the other comments here that this was an international news story.
At this link the year before the murders the Beach Boys sing a song written by Charles Manson:
http://xdell.blogspot.com/2009_01_01_archive.html
09 Apr 13
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIWere the Manson killings more or less grotesque than the killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians - who knows how many? - in south east Asia in [let's say] 1970? How does one measure "grotesque"?
Are these murders known much outside the USA? Or inside the USA among people under 30 years of age?
09 Apr 13
Originally posted by FMFYou can't always compare whether it's more or less. Sometimes when there is only one or a few victims, it's easier to identify and sympathise. You see a face, perhaps get to know the person and it gets very close.
Were the Manson killings more or less grotesque than the killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians - who knows how many? - in south east Asia in [let's say] 1970? How does one measure "grotesque"?
Originally posted by FMFCertainly a shrapnel wound incurred by someone in southeast Asia at that time was just as bloody and painful. But as lolof points out, it was easy for people to put a face to the victims of Manson. As websites and books point out, those killings have ties to some famous names such as Polanski, Sinatra, the Beach Boys, Doris Day and then there's the Folgers coffee fortune.
Were the Manson killings more or less grotesque than the killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians - who knows how many? - in south east Asia?
I still remember my mother's reaction to the deaths of three astronauts in the Apollo capsule fire--yet on that same day many more than three would have died in the Vietnam war. Again, a matter of being able to put a face on the death.
09 Apr 13
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIThis was an accident and tragedy in Italy in the early 80's with a boy who fell down a deep well and couldn't be rescued. The tragedy was followed by the world press, and until this day I have never again experienced what I felt for this boy and his mother. I was devastated and I sent a telegram to her and it all still makes me feel sad.
Certainly a shrapnel wound incurred by someone in southeast Asia at that time was just as bloody and painful. But as lolof points out, it was easy for people to put a face to the victims of Manson. As websites and books point out, those killings have ties to some famous names such as Polanski, Sinatra, the Beach Boys, Doris Day and then there's the Fol ...[text shortened]... would have died in the Vietnam war. Again, a matter of being able to put a face on the death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfredo_Rampi
09 Apr 13
Originally posted by lolofThat sounds like an awful psychological trap for you to fall into. How can you preserve your humanity if you can identify with only one or a few victims, but you do not identify with hundreds of thousands or millions of innocents slaughtered?
You can't always compare whether it's more or less. Sometimes when there is only one or a few victims, it's easier to identify and sympathise. You see a face, perhaps get to know the person and it gets very close.
09 Apr 13
Originally posted by FMFWell, I wouldn't feel a thousand times more for a thousand people than I do for one single person - I don't know how else to explain.
That sounds like an awful psychological trap for you to fall into. How can you preserve your humanity if you can identify with only one or a few victims, but you do not identify with hundreds of thousands or millions of innocents slaughtered?
09 Apr 13
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IINow that you have had the chance to take stock and be more proportionate - 40 years down the road - why are you still fascinated by "killings [that] have ties to some famous names such as Polanski, Sinatra, the Beach Boys, Doris Day and [...] the Folgers coffee fortune." Is it because Doris Day sold more records than any Cambodian farmer I might be able to name?
Certainly a shrapnel wound incurred by someone in southeast Asia at that time was just as bloody and painful. But as lolof points out, it was easy for people to put a face to the victims of Manson. As websites and books point out, those killings have ties to some famous names such as Polanski, Sinatra, the Beach Boys, Doris Day and then there's the Folgers coffee fortune.
09 Apr 13
Originally posted by lolofDo you not resent being rendered so numb by the media and by a selective kind of "history"? Don't you ever feel like grabbing your humanity back from those who have compromised it?
Well, I wouldn't feel a thousand times more for a thousand people than I do for one single person - I don't know how else to explain.
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09 Apr 13
Originally posted by FMFIs it not human nature to "feel more" for a family member, neighbour, or someone you have, if only through the medias, a connection with than someone you know not?
Do you not resent being rendered so numb by the media and by a selective kind of "history"? Don't you ever feel like grabbing your humanity back from those who have compromised it?