A 2000+ rated puzzle.

Originally posted by clandarkfire
Engines are programed in strange ways, and due to some programming glitches or other issues, they often cannot find mate in twos...

I've seen this, but the machine usually finds some other forced mate if there is a mate in 2 possible in the position. The programmers aren't picky about how fast it mates as long as it finds a forced mate that works well enough.

Use a mate search engine and the comp will never miss a mate in two [except for perhaps those that require retrograde analysis].

Originally posted by Sever
I was operating on the assumption that the solution posted by sbacat (which was the first good solution i reached before trying out different first moves) was the correct one.

Assuming that Greenpawn's solution is correct (and not a joke) then my question has been answered. As is usual in puzzles of all types, the devil was in the detail, or lack thereof, i ...[text shortened]... d was "white to move and win in such a manner as no engine would and no sane person could!"

Well, there was a warning that the puzzle was for 2000+ rated players... 😵

..Never seen that puzzle before kept me glued to my board for well over an hour last night...good puzzle.

Yeah good one. I was miles away.

Originally posted by Sever
Perhaps someone can tell my why an engine would have trouble solving this? And, for that matter, why a 1400 ranked player would have trouble with it? Qc5 is the obvious first choice and from there it doesn't appear to be too difficult to get a mate (even if two of black's moves aren't forced). What am i missing?

Huh?

Originally posted by Sever
Assuming that Greenpawn's solution is correct (and not a joke) then my question has been answered.

It took ChestUCI about 2 - 1/4 hours on my PC to confirm greenpawn's solution. Sometimes you can't quite tell if greenpawn is pulling your leg, but this time he was on good behavior. 😀

Originally posted by greenpawn34
It was posted ages ago. (or one very similiar to it)

I actually found the winning idea but screwed up the play with the
Bishop and the a-pawn. If I recall I stumbled by not finding Ba1.

(then I did not know if I was on the right path or had fallen into
the composers trap)

Think it was Swiss G or Heinzkat who put me right.

Excellent study. ...[text shortened]... 4 8. Bb2 a3 9. Ba1 a2 10. Bb2 a1=Q 11. Bxa1 Nd5+ 12. Ke6+ Nc3 13. Bxc3+ Qxc3 14. f8=Q[/pgn]

There seems to me a big problem with that solution, I looked at that move among a bunch of others. With Q-c8, tell me why black does not have Q-e6 check which seems to me to bust the thing wide open, forks king and queen, protected by pawn, white gets a pawn but it looks to me like the pawns come off and its a draw. White at that point could even win the knight and be a bishop up, still a draw or if white totally screws up, actually loses.

Originally posted by sonhouse
There seems to me a big problem with that solution, I looked at that move among a bunch of others. With Q-c8, tell me why black does not have Q-e6 check which seems to me to bust the thing wide open, forks king and queen, protected by pawn, white gets a pawn but it looks to me like the pawns come off and its a draw. White at that point could even win the knight and be a bishop up, still a draw or if white totally screws up, actually loses.

Qxe6 fxe6 g6xh7 and Black is hurtin' real bad.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
Qxe6 fxe6 g6xh7 and Black is hurtin' real bad.

Yep, a little more work and I found that. I and I guess everyone else tried to find moves that stopped whites roller but the sequence is logical and unstoppable. So it is a 14 move mate, and even faster wins if black doesn't find that sequence.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
It took ChestUCI about 2 - 1/4 hours on my PC to confirm greenpawn's solution. Sometimes you can't quite tell if greenpawn is pulling your leg, but this time he was on good behavior. 😀

I did not really solve it as in solving it.

This time I remembered the solution from the last time when I nearly
solved it. So I did put the work in and found (everntullay stumbled upon)
the winning idea. But not this time.

Glad a box confirmed it because I was getting 'nips'.

(nips=inner eye. Never ignore the gut feeling. Here it is most likely telling
me I had seen this before).

"Sometimes you can't quite tell if greenpawn is pulling your leg..."

I post as I play young Sir,

Is the sac sound or is he bluffing?
Is the post genuine or is it a gag?

Keep 'em guessing. 😉

Originally posted by greenpawn34
I did not really solve it as in solving it.

This time I remembered the solution from the last time when I nearly
solved it. So I did put the work in and found (everntullay stumbled upon)
the winning idea. But not this time.

Glad a box confirmed it because I was getting 'nips'.

(nips=inner eye. Never ignore the gut feeling. Here it is most likely telling
me I had seen this before).

The only extra information that ChestUCI came up with was an alternate line near the end. (Still mate in 14).

11...Qc3+ 12. Bxc3 Nd5+ 13. Ke6+ Nxc3 14. f8=Q#

Originally posted by Mad Rook
The only extra information that ChestUCI came up with was an alternate line near the end. (Still mate in 14).

11...Qc3+ 12. Bxc3 Nd5+ 13. Ke6+ Nxc3 14. f8=Q#

Mariska said this is a 2000+ puzzle. What I am wondering is how + is it? I get the feeling even the 2300 crowd would not solve this one. What is the lowest rated that actually solved it without computer help? At least as much help as comps could give in this situation.

Originally posted by Mariska Angela
Hello,

White to move and win!

-MA

What about:
Qc5+ kg8, pxh7+ kxh7, Qh5+ kg8, Qg5+ kf8 or kh8, Qg7++ Mate

Also, Qc8 seems to work as well.
Qc8 qe6+, Qxe6 px6, Ph7 and black cannot prevent new queen.
or
Qc8 ph7xg6, Be7+ kg8, Qxe8

Unless I'm missing something crucial.

(I was trying to get Mariska's board to post again, but no success.)

Originally posted by HobbesVsTigger
What about:
Qc5+ kg8, pxh7+ kxh7, Qh5+ kg8, Qg5+ kf8 or kh8, Qg7++ Mate

Also, Qc8 seems to work as well.
Qc8 qe6+, Qxe6 px6, Ph7 and black cannot prevent new queen.
or
Qc8 ph7xg6, Be7+ kg8, Qxe8

Unless I'm missing something crucial.

(I was trying to get Mariska's board to post again, but no success.)

1. Qc5+ Kg8
2. gxh7+ Kh8



and white has nothing. Queen exchange in most cases is draw or in other cases black can sacrifice the a8 knight on c7 for perpetual.


The other is the same. I think you meant

1. Qc8 Kg8 (not Qe6)
2. gxh7+ Kh8



and white can take the kinght for perpetual. 😕

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Here is the solution - if you don't want to see it, then look away now.

That solution broke my brain