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  1. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    09 Jan '06 13:57
    I was playing a friend otb the other day, and he fianchettoed. I immediately got a bishop and queen battery bearing down on h6 to exchange off the bishops.

    When he saw my queen and bishop on the same diagonal, he immediately moved his rook to e8, allowing him to move the bishop to h8, and so keeping his important bishop.

    So, for example from this position...


    it went 8...Re8 9. Bh6 Bh8

    The game wasn't exactly like that, but I'm just interested in peoples opinions on his 8th and 9th moves. I found it much harder to attack the fianchettoed king than if the bishops had been exchanged, but was it worth the tempo to move the rook? Is the bishop much weaker on h8? Any other thoughts?

    Cheers,

    D
  2. 09 Jan '06 14:26 / 2 edits
    I actually had a similar game on Yahoo! except I was using the Hyper-Accelerated Dragon. I proceeded just as your opponent did because the g7 bishop is really important in this opening. Whether this was a good move or not, I don't know, but I did win the game. Maybe moving the knight to c6 would be a better move.
  3. 09 Jan '06 14:45
    naah I think that rook move is unnecessary. If white really wants to exchange bishops I would let him to do that. It is not a problem for black.
  4. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    09 Jan '06 14:45
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    I actually had a similar game on Yahoo! except I was using the Hyper-Accelerated Dragon. I proceeded just as your opponent did because the g7 bishop is really important in this opening. Whether this was a good move or not, I don't know, but I did win the game. Maybe moving the knight to c6 would be a better move.
    The game itself isn't really important (the game I played with my buddy was an english). I just provided that example to make it clear what I meant.

    Hopefully, somebody can help us as to whether the manouver is a good one or not, in general.

    D
  5. 09 Jan '06 14:49 / 1 edit
    After some research, I think Nc6 would have been stronger and that Re8 was a weak and unnecessary move. Nc6 would have made the bishop trade impossible for the time and it would have furthered development.
  6. Standard member dyl
    09 Jan '06 14:49
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    I was playing a friend otb the other day, and he fianchettoed. I immediately got a bishop and queen battery bearing down on h6 to exchange off the bishops.

    When he saw my queen and bishop on the same diagonal, he immediately moved his rook to e8, allowing him to move the bishop to h8, and so keeping his important bishop.

    So, for example from this pos ...[text shortened]... tempo to move the rook? Is the bishop much weaker on h8? Any other thoughts?

    Cheers,

    D
    It seems like a fair bit of work to save the bishop, especially as one loses control of two possibly important squares around the king. Did your bishop on h6 cause him any bother later on?
  7. 09 Jan '06 14:53
    I haven't played it but if your opponent plays Re8 Bh8 I think you should try to get rid of the Nf6 and then maybe do something like Bf8 (sac) and then Qh6

    ofcourse this will oftenbe a redidiculous set of moves but in a specific situation it can be good I think
  8. 09 Jan '06 14:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    I was playing a friend otb the other day, and he fianchettoed. I immediately got a bishop and queen battery bearing down on h6 to exchange off the bishops.

    When he saw my queen and bishop on the same diagonal, he immediately moved his rook to e8, allowing him to move the bishop to h8, and so keeping his important bishop.

    So, for example from this pos tempo to move the rook? Is the bishop much weaker on h8? Any other thoughts?

    Cheers,

    D
    8...Nc6 is best. Black can't afford an early Bh8 in the dragon and doesn't have to do so because after 8..Nc6 9.Bh6? Bxh6 10.Qxh6 Nxd4! wins. There are continuing tricks, for example:
    8..Nc6 9.O-O-O Bd7 10. Bh6 Nxd4! 11.Bxg7 Nxf3.

    The maneuver with ..Bh8 must be delayed until a suitable line is reached where ..Re8 and ..Bh8 does become warranted. But it depends on how white plays and that line may never be reached.

    Also, ...Bh8 can become a weakness in some lines if white can take advantage of the tactic: Nf5! gxf5, Bh6 Bg7, Qg5!
  9. Standard member Ragnorak
    For RHP addons...
    09 Jan '06 14:58
    Originally posted by Regicidal
    8...Nc6 is best. Black can't afford an early Bh8 in the dragon and doesn't have to do so because after 8..Nc6 9.Bh6? Bxh6 10.Qxh6 Nxd4! wins. There are continuing tricks, for example:
    8..Nc6 9.O-O-O Bd7 10. Bh6 Nxd4! 11.Bxg7 Nxf3.

    The maneuver with ..Bh8 must be delayed until there is a suitable line is reached where ..Re8 and ..Bh8 does become war ...[text shortened]... weakness in some lines if white can take advantage of the tactic: Nf5! gxf5, Bh6 Bg7, Qg5!
    Sorry for the confusion.

    I only included the dragon position to demonstrate the fianchetto that I was talking about. It was actually an english game that it occured in, but I don't have its annotation.

    So basically, I'm just looking for comments on the bishop saving manouver.

    D
  10. Standard member Grandmouster
    ChessObsessed
    09 Jan '06 15:03
    Is'int this the opening where Fischer said something like " I push the h pawn, then sac, sac, mate"
    In otherwords, open the h file, exchange off the B and sac the Rook. Even if you cant get the Dark squared B the R sac opens things up
  11. 09 Jan '06 15:17
    that strategy to keep the fianchettoed bishop is fine and masters use it. I've seen Asa Hoffman do this (live) in downtown Manhattan.
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    09 Jan '06 15:29 / 1 edit
    I know that when I'm attacking a fianchettoed bishop position, I try to trade off the bishop as quickly as possible. People have played this type of manuever against me and I think it's a good one, at least psychologically. If you're opponent likes to do something and you prevent it, I think that's in your favor. In the diagrammed position, Nc6 first may be better, but after that move White plays O-O-O and is still threatening Bh6.
  13. Standard member Grandmouster
    ChessObsessed
    09 Jan '06 15:31
    Originally posted by hypermo2001
    that strategy to keep the fianchettoed bishop is fine and masters use it. I've seen Asa Hoffman do this (live) in downtown Manhattan.
    I know Asa. Hes mostly hanging around the Marshall nowdays. Was that at the Liberty Park you saw him?
  14. 09 Jan '06 15:35
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    I was playing a friend otb the other day, and he fianchettoed. I immediately got a bishop and queen battery bearing down on h6 to exchange off the bishops.

    When he saw my queen and bishop on the same diagonal, he immediately moved his rook to e8, allowing him to move the bishop to h8, and so keeping his important bishop.

    So, for example from this pos ...[text shortened]... tempo to move the rook? Is the bishop much weaker on h8? Any other thoughts?

    Cheers,

    D
    in the particular diagram book theory and the latest fritz 9! both strongly suggest against the play your opponent played. However, I have seen book variations with the Re8 and Bh8 maneuver, I just can't seem to remember what line of the dragon that was, or maybe it was the Pirc? Either way though, it doesnt seem to be too decisive a mistake, only +.40 given by Fritz 9.
  15. 09 Jan '06 15:39
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    but after that move White plays O-O-O and is still threatening Bh6.
    No he isn't.