03 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOGBb4 is not possible. And why do you play it if you think its bad? And besides, both are good. You are sadly lacking in opening information... or you are a troll.
After
1. e4 / e5
2. Nf3 / Nc6
WHY do some Bb5 instead of Bb4?
Many answeres welcome. I have used both but am thinking Bb4 is better, Bb5 sucks
03 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOG3. Bb5 is the Ruy Lopez, possibly the best move for white in this position and played by countless generations of GMs and more analysed than any other opening in existence.
After
1. e4 / e5
2. Nf3 / Nc6
WHY do some Bb5 instead of Bb4?
Many answeres welcome. I have used both but am thinking Bb4 is better, Bb5 sucks
3. Bc4 is also perfectly playable but not as well thought of at higher levels.
Are you lacking in chess knowledge or just an immature troll?
03 May 08
Originally posted by Dragon FireHis spelling indicates the latter to me. Too many so-dubbed "trolls" in these forums. Suckering in those who try to help. My advice is lie and demolish their chess ability so they leave the site due to demoralisation.
3. Bb5 is the Ruy Lopez, possibly the best move for white in this position and played by countless generations of GMs and more analysed than any other opening in existence.
3. Bc4 is also perfectly playable but not as well thought of at higher levels.
Are you lacking in chess knowledge or just an immature troll?
03 May 08
Originally posted by curseknightThere is no need for all of you to be rude! You should be ashamed! I know both are excellent moves. What I asked is... WHY? Why is b5 better. I do not understand why b5 is so great because black can just chase you back with pawn. If I didn't know that it was so popular I wouldn't be asking why. The question is Why! I know I can play b5 and if black does play a6 I can fall back but seems like a waste of time since one fundamental is to move all pieces out in the opening one move at a time. I can only assume that a6 is weak and is not expected to be played because maybe it is considered to be a future weakness for black?? I do not need rude comments from people who think they are so intelligent. I greatly appreciate anybody who cares to comment on the different pros/cons of this situation. I have just started playing in the last few months and have just recently begun reading a few books. Here is a tip for all who have been rude in this thread-In the future if: In all your great knowledge you don't approve of a question from somebody... keep silent. Don't waste any time helping somebody so obviously inferior to yourself...
His spelling indicates the latter to me. Too many so-dubbed "trolls" in these forums. Suckering in those who try to help. My advice is lie and demolish their chess ability so they leave the site due to demoralisation.
Remember: "It is better to confess ignorance than provide it."
"Ignorance and inconsideration are the two great causes of the ruin of mankind."
03 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOGApparently you don't think Bb5 is a good move, as you said in your first post "Bb5 sucks".
There is no need for all of you to be rude! You should be ashamed! I know both are excellent moves. What I asked is... WHY? Why is b5 better. I do not understand why b5 is so great because black can just chase you back with pawn. If I didn't know that it was so popular I wouldn't be asking why. The question is Why! I know I can play b5 and if black do ...[text shortened]... e it."
"Ignorance and inconsideration are the two great causes of the ruin of mankind."
03 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOG1.e4...e5 2.Nf3...Nc6 3.Bb5 and 3...a6 isn't weak at all.
There is no need for all of you to be rude! You should be ashamed! I know both are excellent moves. What I asked is... WHY? Why is b5 better. I do not understand why b5 is so great because black can just chase you back with pawn. If I didn't know that it was so popular I wouldn't be asking why. The question is Why! I know I can play b5 and if black do ...[text shortened]... o move all pieces out in the opening one move at a time. I can only assume that a6 is weak...
An immediate 4...b5 is pretty commital though & because of the positional subtleties of the Ruy (I don't even pretend to fully understand!) it isn't as good as delaying the move, or simply developing normally instead of Black continuing to pursue the Ba4.
The b3 square is also a superb resting place for the white bishop, as Black is now very likely to castle kingside it will immediately pin the f7-pawn & will help control the d5-square. Black's light-square bishop will have a much harder time getting into the game.
After 4.Ba4...b5 5.Bb3...Nf6 6.O-O...Bb7 7.d3...Bc5 8.a4...O-O 9.Nc3 I think White is in the ascendancy:
For instance, 1.e4...e5 2.Nf3...Nc6 3.Bb5...a6 4.Ba4...Nf6 5.O-O...Nxe4 6.d4 and then 6...b5 is much better for Black than the earlier ...b5 push.
03 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOGI'm not sure about this troll issue that a few others brought up. For now, I'm willing to assume the question was sincere, if not possibly phrased in the best way.
After
1. e4 / e5
2. Nf3 / Nc6
WHY do some Bb5 instead of Bb4?
Many answeres welcome. I have used both but am thinking Bb4 is better, Bb5 sucks
I've played the Ruy a few times (only several moves deep), but I've never really studied it. So when you asked your question, I didn't know the answer. And I was hoping that someone would give you a good answer so that I'd learn something too.
I did find a good, basic discussion of the Ruy on the Exeter Chess Club web site. In the Introduction, a couple of applicable paragraphs are as follows:
"The first few moves of the Ruy Lopez opening are easy to follow: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 is very natural. The moves often played by juniors here, 3. Bc4 and 3. d4, are also easy to understand, but may not be the strongest. 3.d4, the Scotch Opening, leads to an early clash but perhaps also an early simplification, with a loss of tension and thus winning chances for both sides. The Italian game with 3. Bc4, hitting f7 and hoping to deter ...d5, paradoxically rather invites ...d7-d5 and an early exchange in the centre, with equality. This is because the logical follow-up 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Nf6, results in Black regaining control of the d5 point.'
'The Ruy Lopez move, 3. Bb5, keeps the idea of taking over the centre with d2-d4 (or with c2-c3 and d2-d4), but first does a number of important other jobs. Like in the Italian Game, the Bishop clears the way for White to castle, and then play Rf1-e1. But on b5 rather than c4 the Bishop cannot be hit by ...d7-d5. If Black does ever move the d-Pawn, the half-pin of the Knight on c6 becomes a full pin, undermining Black's control of e5 and d4."
My apologies for the fact that I was only able to parrot the Exeter discussion and that I wasn't able to give you any original thoughts. But I'm pretty much in the same boat as you on this question.
http://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/Openings/ruylopez.html
03 May 08
Originally posted by Mad RookThank you both! Excellent info, I hadn't considered all of these things... obviously. thanks for the link.
I'm not sure about this troll issue that a few others brought up. For now, I'm willing to assume the question was sincere, if not possibly phrased in the best way.
I've played the Ruy a few times (only several moves deep), but I've never really studied it. So when you asked your question, I didn't know the answer. And I was hoping that someone would give ...[text shortened]... s you on this question.
http://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/Openings/ruylopez.html
The point about the b3 square pinning the f7 pawn is also very helpful.
My apologies for the initial question. My comment about "b5 sucks" caused much confusion. I was just trying to get some people to argue why it doesn't "suck", but I should have left that comment out.
03 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOGI am ashamed. I should be much more tolerant of people who insult a great chess opening without knowing about it, and who clearly aren't interested as their spelling was atrocious and only improved when commented upon. So sorry.
There is no need for all of you to be rude! You should be ashamed! I know both are excellent moves. What I asked is... WHY? Why is b5 better. I do not understand why b5 is so great because black can just chase you back with pawn. If I didn't know that it was so popular I wouldn't be asking why. The question is Why! I know I can play b5 and if black do ...[text shortened]... e it."
"Ignorance and inconsideration are the two great causes of the ruin of mankind."
I suggest, if you really want to know, try buying a book on the Ruy Lopez.
03 May 08
Originally posted by curseknightIs a typo really such an issue to you? Very sad... Very very sad... this is the only time I will waste a moment responding to you looking for an argument. Feel free to argue with yourself... Enjoy the life that your attitude will bring you...
I am ashamed. I should be much more tolerant of people who insult a great chess opening without knowing about it, and who clearly aren't interested as their spelling was atrocious and only improved when commented upon. So sorry.
I suggest, if you really want to know, try buying a book on the Ruy Lopez.
03 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOGIt was your statement "Bb5 sucks" that conveyed the wrong impression I am afraid. Better to have asked why Bb5 seems to be played by so many GMs when black can play a6 and b5 chasing the B and that you feel Bc4 is better.
Is a typo really such an issue to you? Very sad... Very very sad... this is the only time I will waste a moment responding to you looking for an argument. Feel free to argue with yourself... Enjoy the life that your attitude will bring you...
Phrased correctly you may have got an intelligent debate going on the merits of each opening but I am afraid "Bb5 sucks" will not achieve this with adults (no offense intended but I assume you are a youngster from that single statement).
03 May 08
I agree that the word "sucks" lowered my first impression of you. But that aside, I will throw my two bits in.
For one thing, the bishop is not necessarily "chased away" by the pawn. White can play Bxc6 for the exchange variation and vary excellent lines, especially if white can trade down into a pawn endgame.
I believe that Bc4 is considered worse because black can easily mirror whites moves (Italian game) leading to at best equality and a very drawish position.
I will continue to play 3.Bb4.
04 May 08
Originally posted by CEE DOGDog,
Is a typo really such an issue to you? Very sad... Very very sad... this is the only time I will waste a moment responding to you looking for an argument. Feel free to argue with yourself... Enjoy the life that your attitude will bring you...
I'm not going to waste any more time after this on you either.
You have it in your head that the world revolves around you. Sorry, Cuz, it don't. Not in my house, not in anybody else's house either except your moms, maybe.
You come in here and start throwing "stuff" up against the wall, full of errors, and then demand that we give you a respectful discussion of an opening we have bothered to study and possibly even adopt into our repertoires, all for your benefit after insulting our informed choice. Your question was at best poorly worded, but since you have no charity for anyone here, I choose not to have charity for you either. Your question was not just poorly worded, it was insulting and condescending. Go ask someone on your school bus to explain it or just stop playing it.
The fellow that hurt your feelings was correct in his post. There were spelling and/or typographical errors. But after he made accurate observations, you denigrate him. As it says in the bible, remove the beam from thine own eye before helping your brother with the mote in his.