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  1. 19 May '06 07:32
    What would be the best response to d4? d6 or Nf6? Consider that d6 would be the Pirc and Nf6 would become the Nimzo/Bogo.
  2. Standard member XanthosNZ
    Cancerous Bus Crash
    19 May '06 07:33
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    What would be the best response to d4? d6 or Nf6? Consider that d6 would be the Pirc and Nf6 would become the Nimzo/Bogo.
    Nf6 becomes the Nimzo or Bogo? Have you never heard of the KID?
  3. 19 May '06 07:38
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    What would be the best response to d4? d6 or Nf6? Consider that d6 would be the Pirc and Nf6 would become the Nimzo/Bogo.
    Definitely 1...Nf6. It is the most flexible reply.
  4. 19 May '06 08:20 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by XanthosNZ
    Nf6 becomes the Nimzo or Bogo? Have you never heard of the KID?
    Yes, of course I have. But, I am limiting the choices to the Bogo/Nimzo and Pirc openings because these are the ones I am willing to consider.

    BTW: IMO, the Pirc is better than the King's Indian anyway. According to my databse, d6 scores best against d4 with 47% and the players using it are also rated higher than for any other response.
  5. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    19 May '06 14:39
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    Yes, of course I have. But, I am limiting the choices to the Bogo/Nimzo and Pirc openings because these are the ones I am willing to consider.

    BTW: IMO, the Pirc is better than the King's Indian anyway. According to my databse, d6 scores best against d4 with 47% and the players using it are also rated higher than for any other response.
    You have to be careful with database statistics. On my database 1. ... h6 scores best, but I'm pretty certain it's not better than 1. ... Nf6 or 1. ... d6. In any case you can get into the K's Indian via 1. ... d6, and some Dutch Leningrad player use 1. ... d6 to avoid various gambits after 1. d4 f5 so you can't be certain that the figures actually relate to the opening you think it does. I don't think this stuff helps until you're at least six or seven moves into the opening.

    Also the main difference between the Pirc and the King's Indian is the white pawn on c4 so I don't think you can play the Pirc and be certain of avoiding the K's Indian.

    They're all perfectly good openings so pick the one you like best.
  6. 19 May '06 16:05
    First off, the best defense to d4 is the Benko gambit. That said, I do like the nimzo better than your other options.
  7. 19 May '06 16:07
    Originally posted by zebano
    First off, the best defense to d4 is the Benko gambit. That said, I do like the nimzo better than your other options.
    The Benko isnt a defence.....but agreed by far the best and most active reply to 1.d4.
  8. Standard member GalaxyShield
    Mr. Shield
    19 May '06 16:41
    I like 1. c5 vs d4. Don't know what it is cause I learned it by playing here, but I've had success with it here and OTB.
  9. 19 May '06 16:55
    Originally posted by exigentsky
    What would be the best response to d4? d6 or Nf6? Consider that d6 would be the Pirc and Nf6 would become the Nimzo/Bogo.
    Nf6 is the start of MANY defenses including, modern benoni, czech benoni, grunfeld, Budapest, king's indian, queen's indian etc so I'm not sure why you think it's the start of only a couple of defenses (someone stated this but it was not explaining the big amount of choices)
  10. 19 May '06 17:01
    Originally posted by zebano
    First off, the best defense to d4 is the Benko gambit. That said, I do like the nimzo better than your other options.
    What is the notation for the Benko Gambit? By that I mean the moves leading up to it then after it.
  11. 19 May '06 17:08
    Originally posted by hypermo2001
    Nf6 is the start of MANY defenses including, modern benoni, czech benoni, grunfeld, Budapest, king's indian, queen's indian etc so I'm not sure why you think it's the start of only a couple of defenses (someone stated this but it was not explaining the big amount of choices)
    I already wrote that I DO NOT THINK THAT! However, out of those defenses with Nf6, I'm asking you to consider specifically only the Nimzo and Bogo.
  12. 19 May '06 17:32 / 1 edit
    I almost always play 1... e6

    Edit: but I'm not so sure about it..
  13. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    19 May '06 18:11
    I love that when anyone posts a question about responding to a move, some people always just write what they play(it's worse if it's not even the topic of the post), which clearly doesn't help the poster with the intial problem at all. To answer your question, both 1..d6 and 1..Nf6 are great moves. If I remember correctly you play the Pirc, so that's a bonus for 1..d6 if you like the Pirc better than whatever you would play after 2. c4. The 1..d6 option is vague, since you don't say what you'd play after 2. c4. If you are playing the KID, then make sure you are ready for some really complicated positions of all different types, and you are ready to study. The Classical Main Lines of the KID have theory that can go into the 20's, maybe move 30. If you plan to play some offbeat stuff, then just know what you are getting into. The Nimzo/Bogo Complex leads to more positional battles, often white having the bishop pair and Black seeking to close the position for his knights. There are less slugfests in the Nimzo/Bogo, and the game assumes a more quiet (but not really that quiet) nature than 1..d6. I think you just have to decide for yourself which one you would rather play. As after all, people that respond to this thread might really like the Nimzo/Bogo, and then you may play it and think it's too dry, or not wild enough. That's certainly how I feel. Given my choice, my vote goes to 1..d6, with the idea of entering the hairy KID. Good hunting sir.
  14. 19 May '06 18:46
    Originally posted by prosoccer
    What is the notation for the Benko Gambit? By that I mean the moves leading up to it then after it.
    1. d4 Nf6
    2. c4 c5
    3. d5 b5
    4. cxb5 a6
    cxb5 is almost always played and then the a6 "gambited pawn" can be declined in many ways. The following one of the accepted variations...
    5. bxa6 g6
    6. Nc3 Bxa6
    7. e4 Bxf1 (white can also play g3 here and castle after fianchettoing his bishop which is currently the more popular treatement)
    8. Kxf1 Bg7
    9. g3 intending to play Kg2 and move the rook elsewhere.


    As to the original post, I like the nimzo/bogo. It is a very solid defense, even at the grandmaster level and it allows you to quickly strike back in the center.
  15. 19 May '06 19:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by zebano
    1. d4 Nf6
    2. c4 c5
    3. d5 b5
    4. cxb5 a6
    cxb5 is almost always played and then the a6 "gambited pawn" can be declined in many ways. The following one of the accepted variations...
    5. bxa6 g6
    6. Nc3 Bxa6
    7. e4 Bxf1 (white can also play g3 here and castle after fianchettoing his bishop which is currently the more popular treatement)
    8. Kxf1 Bg7
    9. ...[text shortened]... defense, even at the grandmaster level and it allows you to quickly strike back in the center.
    To add a bit more.....blacks pieces slide effortlessly onto good squares, Ra8,Rb8.....the queen on c7 b6 or a5 and the bishop on g7 giving black massive pressure down the queenside, white is almost always on the defensive at the start of the Benko. Black should seek to trade off the knights if he/she can manage this then whites position should fall apart in a hurry. ie Nf6,Ng4,Ne5 for the Nf3 knight and Nd7,Nb6,Na4 for the c3 knight.....of course a good white player isnt just going to sit around and let this happen but if black can pull it off then its almost always enough for an advantage.