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  1. 06 Jun '13 11:56 / 1 edit
    So first you have to watch this one.

    http://en.chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4009997/the-show-goes-on-ivanov-in-kustendil-030613.aspx

    It's rather long but to get to the game slide the time bar to 32. minutes.

    And then watch Andrew Martin not agreeing at all with the evidence presented by Valeri Lilov.

    YouTube
  2. 07 Jun '13 13:23
    I'm just a lowly novice player, but in my opinion the guy in the first video who believes he is cheating made a stronger argument.

    I am convinced he is not only a cheater, but he is also a pumpkin eater.
  3. Standard member Exuma
    Anansi
    07 Jun '13 15:46
    Thanks for the links GP. Andrew Martin is a pleasure to listen to, and convinced me to wait for more evidence. Perhaps Ivanov has found the chess equivalent of the crossroads in the blues, and made a deal with the devil.

  4. 07 Jun '13 16:30
    Originally posted by Exuma
    Thanks for the links GP. Andrew Martin is a pleasure to listen to, and convinced me to wait for more evidence. Perhaps Ivanov has found the chess equivalent of the crossroads in the blues, and made a deal with the devil.

    He didn't really address the bulk of the points made by Alex Karaivanov. He only gave commentary on that one game, explain why his moves were logical, and without even considering it was a speed match. Well of course the moves were logical. They were the most accurate moves as per Houdini - in a speed match.

    Looking at all the evidence (not just that one game), I think Karaivanov made a pretty damning case.
  5. 07 Jun '13 17:23
    I enjoyed both videos. I am leaning towards engine cheating myself.

    The most interesting part will be if they ever figure the technology he's using - that will be cool.
  6. Donation ketchuplover
    G.O.A.T.
    07 Jun '13 23:59
    Apparently the accused has been suspended by his federation for four months (not exactly sure when it started)
  7. Standard member woodypusher
    misanthrope
    08 Jun '13 01:33
    As I said before, I'd love to see Ivanov analyze his games after it's over. If he can crush Grand Masters, then he should have no problem remembering all the moves (and why) played in his game plus the answers to any other possible opponent responses...maybe even take questions from the gallery.
  8. Subscriber 64squaresofpain On Vacation
    The drunk knight
    08 Jun '13 09:48
    Calling other chess players "buttheads" and trying to label himself as a cool,
    anti-sterotypical chess player just rings alarm bells.
    No true player at GM standard talks about other players of the game like that, it's just plain disrespectful.

    Definite cheater in my eyes, although I must say innocent until proven guilty.
  9. 08 Jun '13 12:26
    Hi Woody.

    Perhaps not. I know quite a few good players including one GM who
    are hopless at explaining things.
    They shrug their shoulders and say a move is just good, that's it.

    Let's for the sake of argument say he is gifted and can think like a computer.
    (it was bound to happen one day.)
    Gifted people cannot explain how they got good or what they are doing.

    "One day I just got good." Bobby Fishcer.

    And Capablanca too in his writings assumed the reader knew as much as
    he did about certain aspects of the game and often could not explain
    in any detail why some of his brilliant and deep moves were played.

    "It's the natural move for thsi position." still leaves everyone except him in the dark.

    ---------------------

    "No true player at GM standard talks about other players of the game
    like that, it's just plain disrespectful."

    I've heard a lot worse than Butthead, a lot worse.
    He is being called a cheat and liar by these GM's he is fighting back.

    Anyway I've figured out how he does it.
    A bionic contact lens and an onboard computer.

    But where is the computer?

    The same way drug smugglers bring their junk into the country.
    It's up his bum.
  10. 08 Jun '13 15:44
    Occam's Razor... They have yet to find a single shred of conclusive proof so at this point the simplest answer is that he isnt cheating.

    I know this is a controversial answer but if he has the means to cheat undetectably then why is there nobody else apparently sky rocketing in ability? I dont care about engine match ups if there is no engine... Find the engine and then I'll believe, 100%, that he is a filthy cheater.
  11. Standard member woodypusher
    misanthrope
    08 Jun '13 17:06 / 3 edits
    GM Kiril Georgiev is tied for 23rd place (out of 58) in the World Rapid Chess 2013. Perhaps his confidence took a beating when he was thoroughly demolished in his rapid game against the incredibly talented Bulgarian FM Borislav Ivanov.

    http://chessbase.com/Home/TabId/211/PostId/4010032/experts-weigh-in-on-ivanovs-performance-060613.aspx

    Georgiev:
    "My game against Borislav Ivanov was played at ten minutes plus five second increment. He played very fast, which came as a big surprise to me. He spent between five and seven seconds per move, and never took more time on any of his moves during the game. For the whole game he was supporting his chin with his two hands. He was making his moves quickly and vigorously, displaying a high level of self-confidence at all times.

    He nevertheless had a lot of time on the clock – at the end of the game he had over seven minutes left! He didn’t stand up even once during the game. Our game was not broadcast over the Internet. It made a strong impression on me that at some point, when the position was repeated twice, he thought for about three seconds and diverted, avoiding a three-fold repetition! Best Regards, Kiril."

    One of the giveaways to me when I'm playing 10-minute games or more online that my opponent may be using an engine is when all his moves take almost exactly the same amount of time, regardless of their complexity; or even when the moves were part of a forced combination with only one legal move.

    I'm not saying I'm '100%' positive Ivanov cheats, but I'm 99% sure.
  12. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    08 Jun '13 17:33 / 1 edit
    I believe that earlier that he had said he played the Houdini computer engine in practice. So from that we know that he has it. If my memory is correct he said he even beat it regularly.

    The Instructor
  13. Standard member woodypusher
    misanthrope
    08 Jun '13 17:39
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I believe that earlier that he had said he played the Houdini computer engine in practice. So from that we know that he has it. If my memory is correct he said he even beat it regularly.

    The Instructor
    That would make Ivanov around 3300 elo strength. He should have no problem becoming World Champion when he meets Carlsen for the title.

  14. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    09 Jun '13 01:28
    Originally posted by woodypusher
    That would make Ivanov around 3300 elo strength. He should have no problem becoming World Champion when he meets Carlsen for the title.

    You may not be able to go by those numbers. I think they are basically estimates compared to other computers and may not reflect their strength against humans of grandmaster level.

    The Instructor
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    09 Jun '13 01:35
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Hi Woody.

    Perhaps not. I know quite a few good players including one GM who
    are hopless at explaining things.
    They shrug their shoulders and say a move is just good, that's it.

    Let's for the sake of argument say he is gifted and can think like a computer.
    (it was bound to happen one day.)
    Gifted people cannot explain how they got good or what ...[text shortened]...
    The same way drug smugglers bring their junk into the country.
    It's up his bum.
    So are you saying he hides the computer up his arse?

    The Instructor