confused about engine usage

I use chess engines nearly every day. When I arrived home from chess club Thursday night, for example, I set up an endgame that had appeared in a blitz game I was watching. I had criticized the moves of the stronger side, suggesting there was a simpler win. I set up the position and played it against Hiarcs 12, which quickly resigned. I made the beast keep playing until the third resignation.

Originally posted by Renars
p.s.
I do wonder why people ask if it's allowed to begin with... an interesting mindset, that's like - is the use of steroids allowed in sports?

I think people ask because not all sites/organisations have the same rule about engine use. Those that do ban engine use often have a tick box as part of the sign up process. That is probably not obvious enough for most, I suppose that most don't read the text before the tick box but just assume it is like the licence agreements that one has to agree to when installing software.

If one is coming here from chess.com, say, then the natural assumption is that engine use is worse than murder. However, a person coming from IECG or ICCF might not even be aware that engine use is viewed as such a terrible crime by some (many?). God only knows what someone coming from chessmaniac would think, engine use is banned there but the "rule" is an addendum to a FAQ entry on pgn downloads and the "rule" is not enforced despite constant shouts of CHEAT!!

I don't think it helps that such sites often have a policy of not making the whole cheat detection and banning process open and transparent. If one could see "justice" being done on a regular basis and knew what stage each case had reached it would be obvious that engine use is illegal and that someone is actively doing something about it. That would serve to reassure people that the rules are enforced and possibly deter some from breaking the rules. Instead, most sites that enforce an engine ban insist on playing secret squirrel with the whole thing, often banning all discussion of the issue and making the procedure as opaque and user unfriendly as possible.

Originally posted by Diophantus
If one is coming here from chess.com, say, then the natural assumption is that engine use is worse than murder. However, a person coming from IECG or ICCF might not even be aware that engine use is viewed as such a terrible crime by some (many?)

ok, fair enough... only I somehow believe that our dear friend (who started this thread) has a different agenda, but I might as well be wrong, let's see.. also, when... [original text deleted by the author]... interesting pattern emerges

Originally posted by Renars
ok, fair enough... only I somehow believe that our dear friend (who started this thread) has a different agenda, but I might as well be wrong, let's see.. also, when... [original text deleted by the author]... interesting pattern emerges

Seems to me he is asking whether he is wrong to think there is a general ban on engine use as he thinks those at the top of the table are using some form of assistance. ICC operates some kind of auto detection and punishment system (allegedly) so if he comes from there he might be expecting similar to be in place here.

Originally posted by Diophantus
...and punishment system (allegedly) so if he comes from there he might be expecting similar to be in place here.

it is surreal. I saw 'Shutter Island' yesterday and I'm not sure now what is real.

Originally posted by clandarkfire
Meaning that since in CC people have a large amount of time at their disposal, it is rather hard to prove that they are using engines, because genuinely good players can have very high match up rates with the moves of engines. From what I understand one move is never enough to warrant a ban; a lot of evidence must be submitted.

The other problem is tc.

When or how the mods decide to ban players seems to be very much up to their descretion.

That's clear! So that's why, in the games I saw, it appeared that engine assistance is used. I have a correction though to make: genuinely good modern CC players can have indeed very high match up rates with the moves of the engines, because everybody who plays CC nowadays checks his moves with an engine for tactical errors. In the past, when there were no engines, these match-up rates were not significant.

OK, so the rule is enforced, but nobody knows how, when and if and everything seems to be at the discretion of some mods. Probably there are untouchable persons too. Great! Not a good site to play for me.

Originally posted by cotoi
OK, so the rule is enforced, but nobody knows how, when and if and everything seems to be at the discretion of some mods. Probably there are untouchable persons too. Great! Not a good site to play for me.

Depends on your level .. at the sub 2000 level, which would include the vast majority of RHP users, engine useage really isn't an issue. Any old engine runnning on a pocket calculator these days could probably reach 2k+ here, so most users simply swim underneath the turmoil.

Originally posted by aquatabby
Depends on your level .. at the sub 2000 level, which would include the vast majority of RHP users, engine useage really isn't an issue. Any old engine runnning on a pocket calculator these days could probably reach 2k+ here, so most users simply swim underneath the turmoil.

The OP has a standard rating of around 1900 on ICC, so there is a good chance he might encounter a few engines.

No, that's not my ICC account.

What do you mean 2000? 2000 FIDE or what?

Originally posted by cotoi
OK, so the rule is enforced, but nobody knows how, when and if and everything seems to be at the discretion of some mods. Probably there are untouchable persons too. Great! Not a good site to play for me.

we DO know what the mods do, clear evidence is easily gathered, banning is NOT at the discretion of mods BUT the admins, and there ARE untouchables (which we can't name here as this thread would quickly disappear). that's about it in a nutshell.

Originally posted by cotoi
No, that's not my ICC account.

What do you mean 2000? 2000 FIDE or what?

2000 RHP, naturally. the best human players here are FMs and one IM I think, which might give you some idea about the rating scale.

Originally posted by cotoi
No, that's not my ICC account.

What do you mean 2000? 2000 FIDE or what?

I just saw there was a player on ICC named cotoi with a rating around 1900, so I assumed it was you.

Do you know about what your rating is? On ICC or OTB or whatever?

Because if it's under 2100 chances are you won't have any trouble with engines.

Originally posted by cotoi
because everybody who plays CC nowadays checks his moves with an engine for tactical errors.

😲 Really?

Originally posted by range blasts
😲 Really?

As far as I know the main CC sites (IECG, ICCF) allow engine assistance; I also know that there are a number of sites which only claim that they regulate cheating, while in fact they fail to do so.

Sure, you can choose to play CC without engine assistance, but given that your opponents will likely have at least a Rybka running on a laptop, you should not be very surprised that you lose all the games 🙂

Originally posted by wormwood
2000 RHP, naturally. the best human players here are FMs and one IM I think, which might give you some idea about the rating scale.

Well, when I looked at some games I thought that Kasparov plays here too 🙂