30 Jan 08
2 edits
Originally posted by UzumakiAiDo you mean c4? I mean, of course d4 has transpositional possibilities towards itself. What does that mean?
d4 in my opinion is the best opening, followed by c4 (because it has transpositional ability towards d4, and also keeps center of the board. Very flexibel!
Also, one interesting thing I notice about e4 is that it may lead to a kingside attack in virtually every opening and is usually the best plan. e4 points towards the kingside too so I guess it intuitively makes sense.
French: Winnawer with Qg4 with Kside attack. Classical with e5 and f4 or even Bg5.
Caro-Kann: Advanced with Nc3 or even the main line with Nc3 and h4.
Sicilian: Virtually always with long castle and a Kside attack of some sort
Petroff: Nc3 with long castle.
Ruy: More central play but White also has Kside ambitions with Ng3 if Black makes the slightest slip in defense.
Pirc/Modern: White attacks kingside with h4-h5.
Perhaps because it leads to race scenarios that are hard to estimate, e4 scores better for computers and 2500+ players (higher you go higher the score). Or maybe it's just because it allows slightly faster development.
d4 has more focus on the center and Qside (the way it points) but can in some cases lead to Kside attacks too such as in the QGD, Benoni (Taimanov variation) or Semi-Slav. Although, this is usually more Black's territory as the KID has demonstrated. White's advantage usually lies on the other flank and in the center.
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31 Jan 08
Originally posted by exigentskyI said c4. d4 is best, but c4 is as well, because I like d4 and d5 squares to control... I do not agree about e4... only poor players are defeated easily with early kingside attacks, so if you want to play well, do not bet on opponent being bad!
Do you mean c4? I mean, of course d4 has transpositional possibilities towards itself. What does that mean?
Also, one interesting thing I notice about e4 is that it may lead to a kingside attack in virtually every opening and is usually the best plan. e4 points towards the kingside too so I guess it intuitively makes sense.
French: Winnawer with Qg4 ...[text shortened]... he KID has demonstrated. White's advantage usually lies on the other flank and in the center.
I think that c4 is best if you know how to use it best, but I know d4 more and therefore is best for me (although I am developing skill in c4...).
e4 sucks, so there!
01 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by UzumakiAiI'm not usually so blunt, but that's just stupid. White's half move advantage is often best realized through attack. There are numerous position when kingisde attack is THE RIGHT IDEA and sometimes the only one. Many e4 openings bring positions in which this is the case. I already mentioned some.
I said c4. d4 is best, but c4 is as well, because I like d4 and d5 squares to control... I do not agree about e4... only poor players are defeated easily with early kingside attacks, so if you want to play well, do not bet on opponent being bad!
I think that c4 is best if you know how to use it best, but I know d4 more and therefore is best for me (although I am developing skill in c4...).
e4 sucks, so there!
01 Feb 08
Originally posted by UzumakiAie4 does not suck.
I said c4. d4 is best, but c4 is as well, because I like d4 and d5 squares to control... I do not agree about e4... only poor players are defeated easily with early kingside attacks, so if you want to play well, do not bet on opponent being bad!
I think that c4 is best if you know how to use it best, but I know d4 more and therefore is best for me (although I am developing skill in c4...).
e4 sucks, so there!
In my lowly opinion.
e4- refreshingly different every time and can be very strong and attacking or defending.
d4- repetitive, used to play it, ended up in the same position every time and quite often only drawing with people I wipe off the board other times.
c4- not much experience, but I respect it due to the vast complications that can arise.
So d4 is probably bottom of my list.
e4, c4 and Nf3.
My favourites.
01 Feb 08
Originally posted by FlyingDutchmane4 - Offers perfectly fine positions, they aren't necessarily boring, or drawish. Nor are they necessarily active and sharp - it is what you make of it.
They are all completely sound. One could argue so is h3. What matters is the follow up.
d4 - Offers perfectly fine positions, they aren't necessarily boring, or drawish. Nor are they necessarily active and sharp - it is what you make of it.
c4 - Offers perfectly fine positions, they aren't necessarily boring, or drawish. Nor are they necessarily active and sharp - it is what you make of it.
01 Feb 08
Originally posted by cmsMasterCtrl+C is such a handy combination.
e4 - Offers perfectly fine positions, they aren't necessarily boring, or drawish. Nor are they necessarily active and sharp - it is what you make of it.
d4 - Offers perfectly fine positions, they aren't necessarily boring, or drawish. Nor are they necessarily active and sharp - it is what you make of it.
c4 - Offers perfectly fine positions, they a ...[text shortened]... y boring, or drawish. Nor are they necessarily active and sharp - it is what you make of it.
01 Feb 08
Originally posted by FlyingDutchmanYeah, d4 is not any more repetitive than any other opening.
e4 does not suck.
In my lowly opinion.
e4- refreshingly different every time and can be very strong and attacking or defending.
d4- repetitive, used to play it, ended up in the same position every time and quite often only drawing with people I wipe off the board other times.
c4- not much experience, but I respect it due to the vast complications that can arise.
So d4 is probably bottom of my list.
e4, c4 and Nf3.
My favourites.
01 Feb 08
Originally posted by cmsMasterYes, I am getting the point. Tripling it is very helpful.
Are you getting the point that I'm trying to make?
And yeah, I've played all three relatively extensively at some point or other.
I believe this thread was about personal preference, if anyone here could prove any one of those three unsound, they would be very, very, good.
We're merely debating.
01 Feb 08
Originally posted by FlyingDutchmanWell, I guess I like all three pretty well. I've been playing 1.d4 primarily for the last 8-10 months, and I had focused on 1.e4 before that. I like the positions that 1.d4 gives me a little more overall though, I get more central control and I feel like I have more options - I like to keep things pretty active, so I've formed my 1.d4 repertoire around that idea. With 1.e4 I was able to do the same thing, but I think that it's a little bit less fun when you have to deal with things like the Caro-Kann, French, or Scandinavian. They're both pretty fun though, it just depends on my mood I guess.
Yes, I am getting the point. Tripling it is very helpful.
I believe this thread was about personal preference, if anyone here could prove any one of those three unsound, they would be very, very, good.
We're merely debating.
01 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by cmsMasterYou forgot Nf3. 😛 Although, it does usually transpose. Anyway, I agree with you but I feel that all these choices have a certain character that usually comes through in most variations. Yes, you can make it into what you want but within that frame.
e4 - completely sound
d4 - completely sound
c4 - completely sound
01 Feb 08
2 edits
I think they are all different games. It comes down to personal preference which is exactly what CMS was getting at.
However, you have to know your opponent in order to know which opening will be most effective against that opponent in the next game... because everyone has their own style.
I do think it is wise to be well versed in the main lines of all 3 of those openings, as black at least.
edit:
Its good to know the usual characteristics of each of those middle games.
In my own words, from my experience:
1.e4 tends to be more fast and open and leads to more piece conflicts and tactics in the beginning. Development of pieces can be quick, looking for attack chances soon.
1.d4 tends to be more positional with less initial piece conflict and leads to more strategic development of pieces for the idea of future conflicts.
1.c4 is a bit of both, it has the most transpositional potential, I find it usually offers white the ability of fully developing with the idea of a pawn break and forceful attack afterwards, looking for strategic or material advantages.
Of course, these trends can be shattered depending on how black plays.
edit:
My advice would be to play them all, then focus on each one, one-by-one until you get a good idea of how those moves influences the rest of the game.
01 Feb 08
Originally posted by ChessJesterIt helps with white too, especially in CC. If I know my opponent, then I can basically choose which lines I want to go into by choosing between 1.e4 or 1.d4 - or even something else if I think I can still win.
I think they are all different games. It comes down to personal preference which is exactly what CMS was getting at.
However, you have to know your opponent in order to know which opening will be most effective against that opponent in the next game... because everyone has their own style.
I do think it is wise to be well versed in the main lines of all 3 of those openings, as black at least.