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  1. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    16 Oct '12 17:24
    To think that these players travelled all the way to Turkey to play this?

  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    16 Oct '12 17:37
    The sad thing is, this game will be used as amunition against women chess players one day.
  3. 16 Oct '12 17:40
    Which countries were they representing?
  4. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    16 Oct '12 18:32
    Originally posted by vivify
    The sad thing is, this game will be used as amunition against women chess players one day.
    It is not a criticism of woman players, if anything it's a criticism of Chess federations who fail to organise woman's tournaments to actually find woman who know how to play chess. I could field a team of 6 woman that i know who would destroy play like this, and that's without even looking. When you consider the cost of travel and accommodation, you have to wonder why these federations even bother sending a team.
  5. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    16 Oct '12 18:32
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Which countries were they representing?
    Afraid not.
  6. 16 Oct '12 18:44
    Originally posted by Dewi Jones
    Which countries were they representing?
    White (Angola); Black (Afghanistan).

    Given that the Taliban believe that it's wrong for women to play chess,
    Ms Hussaini might face a deadly reprisal after she returns to her homeland.
    While she's obviously a novice at chess, she does not seem to lack courage.
  7. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    16 Oct '12 18:57
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    White (Angola); Black (Afghanistan).

    Given that the Taliban believe that it's wrong for women to play chess,
    Ms Hussaini might face a deadly reprisal after she returns to her homeland.
    While she's obviously a novice at chess, she does not seem to lack courage.
    I see, that's fair enough i guess. Shocking game though.
  8. Standard member gambit05
    Mad Murdock
    16 Oct '12 18:59
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    White (Angola); Black (Afghanistan).

    Given that the Taliban believe that it's wrong for women to play chess,
    Ms Hussaini might face a deadly reprisal after she returns to her homeland.
    While she's obviously a novice at chess, she does not seem to lack courage.
    If that is true: Kudos!
  9. 16 Oct '12 19:07
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    It is not a criticism of woman players, if anything it's a criticism of Chess federations who fail to organise woman's tournaments to actually find woman who know how to play chess. I could field a team of 6 woman that i know who would destroy play like this, and that's without even looking. When you consider the cost of travel and accommodation, you have to wonder why these federations even bother sending a team.
    First of all, at the 2012 Olympiad women's teams consisted of five players,
    not six, as you have implied. Try to get your facts straight.

    Next, you seem to have disregarded the historical, political, and cultural contexts.
    These women represented Angola (White) and Afghanistan (Black) respectively.
    For decades, Angola was embroiled in a bloody civil war with intervention by
    foreign military forces. Developing women's chess had a very low priority.
    Nonetheless, Angola seems to have developed a respectable chess culture
    (for men) by the general standards of sub-Saharan Africa.

    The prospects for women's chess are much worse in Afghanistan, where the
    Taliban believe that it's wrong for women to play chess. Given the violence that
    the Taliban already have done to some women who were perceived to defy their
    edicts, only the most brave or foolhardy Afghan women would keep playing chess,
    at least in public. Having a women's team represent Afghanistan at the Olympiad
    was a way for Afghanistan's government to show that it opposes what the Taliban
    believe must be a woman's place in Islamic society. Apparently, you believe that
    Afghanistan should not send any women to represent their country until these
    women already have proven that they are world-class players. You seem to
    ignore the great difficulties of organising women's chess events in Afghanistan.

    It's easy for someone who takes one's safety for granted while playing chess to
    look down upon the play of Ms Hussaini. Obviously, she's a novice at chess, but
    everyone, male or female, has to begin learning somewhere. When was the last
    time that you participated in a chess tournament while knowing that you likely
    would have to face serious threats of violence when you returned home?
  10. Standard member gambit05
    Mad Murdock
    16 Oct '12 19:11
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    First of all, at the 2012 Olympiad women's teams consisted of five players,
    not six, as you have implied. Try to get your facts straight.

    Next, you seem to have disregarded the historical, political, and cultural contexts.
    These women represented Angola (White) and Afghanistan (Black) respectively.
    For decades, Angola was embroiled in a bloody civil ...[text shortened]... at you likely
    would have to face serious threats of violence when you returned home?
    Somehow you take these comments too seriously.
  11. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    16 Oct '12 19:16 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    First of all, at the 2012 Olympiad women's teams consisted of five players,
    not six, as you have implied. Try to get your facts straight.

    Next, you seem to have disregarded the historical, political, and cultural contexts.
    These women represented Angola (White) and Afghanistan (Black) respectively.
    For decades, Angola was embroiled in a bloody civil at you likely
    would have to face serious threats of violence when you returned home?
    Golly, aren't we feeling magnanimous today! I didn't realise that she travelled from a war zone, as Gambit said, Kudos to her! However, is the Chess Olympiad really the place for a novice to earn their spurs? How many decent players stayed at home while this novice played?

    EDIT: 5 boards and one reserve surely?
  12. 16 Oct '12 19:22
    Originally posted by gambit05
    Somehow you take these comments too seriously.
    For the record, Marinkatomb asked:
    "you have to wonder why these federations even bother sending a team."
    And I explained why, at least in the case of Afghanistan, while also mentioning
    facts of which Marinkatomb (as well as likely other readers) seemed ignorant.

    While I don't take the posts here nearly as seriously, of course, as articles in an
    academic journal, of course, I also disagree with the apparently common attitude
    (which trolls love) that being factually accurate should have no importance at RHP.
    In this case, I was primarily concerned with Marinkatomb's lack of context.

    Perhaps you (Gambit05) might prefer the many (non-serious) posts of RJHinds?
  13. 16 Oct '12 19:23 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Marinkatomb
    Golly, aren't we feeling magnanimous today! I didn't realise that she travelled from a war zone, as Gambit said, Kudos to her! However, is the Chess Olympiad really the place for a novice to earn their spurs? How many decent players stayed at home while this novice played?

    EDIT: 5 boards and one reserve surely?
    "Golly, aren't we feeling magnanimous today!"
    --Marinkatomb

    Your original post seemed to have an unnecessarily inflammatory tone.
    I expect that I could have readily defeated these players, but I would not
    have sneered at them afterward.

    "EDIT: 5 boards and one reserve surely?"
    --Marinkatomb

    That's wrong, the 2012 Olympiad women's teams consisted of four boards and
    one reserve--five players in total. When you don't know it, don't assume it.

    "Is the Chess Olympiad really the place for a novice to earn their (sic) spurs?"
    --Marinkatomb

    Some players on the weaker men's teams seem hardly any stronger than novices,
    being average club players at best. Should these men deserve to be ridiculed too?

    "How many decent players stayed at home while this novice played?"
    --Marinkatomb

    According to the FIDE website, Afghanistan has (or had) no women players with
    a FIDE rating. Why do you seem concerned that Afghanistan's chess authorities
    passed over many stronger women players in favour of selecting Ms Hussaini?

    Also, it's not unusual for countries *not* to be represented by all their strongest
    players. At the 2012 women's Olympiad, IM Jovanka Houska did not play for
    England. WGM Ruan Lufei (rated 2501 FIDE now, which is GM strength) did not
    play for China, apparently on account of her academic responsibilities (she's
    studying for a PhD in the USA). She was replaced by a much weaker player, which
    probably was enough to cost China the gold medal (narrowly losing it to Russia).
  14. Standard member vivify
    rain
    16 Oct '12 19:25 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    For the record, Marinkatomb asked:
    "you have to wonder why these federations even bother sending a team."
    And I explained why, at least in the case of Afghanistan, while also mentioning
    facts of which Marinkatomb (as well as likely other readers) seemed ignorant.

    While I don't take the posts here nearly as seriously, of course, as articles in an
    a of context.

    Perhaps you (Gambit05) might prefer the many (non-serious) posts of RJHinds?
    It's not about being factually accurate that's the problem, it's you being an insuferable, condescending know-it-all. Do you really think that the original poster would've made those comments, knowing the struggle those women went through? Spread knowledge gracefully, without needlessly spewing negativity in the process.
  15. Subscriber Marinkatomb
    wotagr8game
    16 Oct '12 19:30
    Originally posted by vivify
    It's not about being factually accurate that's the problem, it's you being an insuferable, condescending know-it-all. Do you really think that the original poster would've made those comments, knowing the struggle those women went through? Spread knowledge gracefully, without needlessly spewing negativity in the process.
    Quite, i have to give Afghanistan credit for managing to field a team at all. I'd be interested to know how they went about it..