Originally posted by paultopiaHey, you like tactical, play 8. ...... Ng4; that messes with the Bishop AND defends the pawn!
after 7. ... h6, 8. Be3 I STILL can't castle kingside, since that hangs the pawn. so the question again is.. where do I put my king? leave it in the center? Still not enough time to clear the queenside to go that way. Certainly can't push g5. My calculation after that is very simple: 7. ... h6 8. Be3 g5 9. o-o-o o-o 10. f4 resigns 1-0. I'd still ...[text shortened]... pare queenside castling, non? And where does the time come for that before the center explodes?
I still say my way is the best, not to be a butt. As long as you can keep that diagonal open the better. The possible pressure on the d4 knight almost forces Be3, or Nxc6. But after Nxc6 bxc6, a knight can't jump into d5, making the pin on the Knight if it gets developed to Nf6 less of a problem. Be3 seems super-natural in the position anyway. The obvious plan for white points to going long and strong anyway. Be3 - Qd2 - 0-0-0 - f3 seems good to me. But I think black has play here, especially if he ditches the knight for the one on c6. Hell, I think I may take this opening up for myself! Hehehehe....
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Originally posted by LivingLegendhmm.... see, the thing about the scandinavian is, well.... I face it a LOT as white. Specifically, I beat it a LOT as white. I'm sure I've lost against it. But I can't remember when... which leads me to not trust it too much. It seems to lead to quick simplification into a better white endgame.
I'm afraid I am too late... but Paul, if there is any opening that is totally your style. It's the Scandinavian with 2..Qxd5!. Send me a PM if you're interested to talk about it. 🙂
O.
Originally posted by no1marauder2 questions.
I didn't read the whole thread, but my opinion on 6. Bg5 stands. You guys must be playing with Paul's head suggesting the Philidor and has for the game 7. .... h6 is obviously the move and if you don't want to be forced to play a very defensive game don't play the Philidor!!
1.On what ground(s)(other than it's bad reputation and top GM's don't play it) do you base the opinion that the Philidor,Larsen variation is bad/weak?
2.Which,do you think,would be a better opening,with the criteria paul set?
Originally posted by paultopiaIf you know more or less forced way to quickly simplify Scandinavian into better white endgame, please let me know. My experience on white side of it is quite different:-)
hmm.... see, the thing about the scandinavian is, well.... I face it a LOT as white. Specifically, I beat it a LOT as white. I'm sure I've lost against it. But I can't remember when... which leads me to not trust it too much. It seems to lead to quick simplification into a better white endgame.
Originally posted by SirLoseALotI play the Sicilian Najdorf (if I can) so that answers no. It's obvious no grandmaster below the level of Larsen would ever play the Philidor opening (check the databases); so if you guys want to jerk around that's your business. The Philidor been recognized as an inferior opening for a least a hundred years; so you guys should at least read a book or alternatively, please' please play the Philidor against me!!
2 questions.
1.On what ground(s)(other than it's bad reputation and top GM's don't play it) do you base the opinion that the Philidor,Larsen variation is bad/weak?
2.Which,do you think,would be a better opening,with the criteria paul set?
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Originally posted by no1marauderPhilidor occasionally played by GMs below and above Larsen level (though mostly in rapid games):
It's obvious no grandmaster below the level of Larsen would ever play the Philidor opening (check the databases);
Stein,L (2605) - Petrosian,T (2640) [C41]
Alekhine mem Moscow (3), 26.11.1971
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7 5.Bc4 Be7 6.0-0 0-0 7.a4 c6 8.a5 h6 9.Ba2 Re8 10.dxe5 dxe5 11.Qe2 Bf8 12.Rd1 Qc7 13.Nh4 Nc5 14.Nf5 Kh7 15.Qf3 Ng8 16.b4 Ne6 17.Rb1 g6 18.Ne3 Bg7 19.Nc4 Nd4 20.Qd3 Rd8 21.Qf1 Be6 22.Ne3 ½-½
Cigan,S (2280) - Smyslov,V (2600) [C50]
Portoroz/Ljubljana Ljubljana (1), 1985
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 Be7 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Nc3 0-0 7.0-0 Nc6 8.h3 Na5 9.Bd3 c5 10.Nf3 b6 11.Re1 Bb7 12.Nd5 c4 13.Bf1 Nxd5 14.exd5 Bf6 15.Rb1 Rc8 16.b4 cxb3 17.axb3 Bc3 18.Re3 Re8 19.Rxe8+ Qxe8 20.Qd3 Bf6 21.c4 ½-½
Anand,V (2725) - Ivanchuk,V (2735) [C41]
Amber-rapid 5th Monte Carlo (3), 1996
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bc4 c6 4.d4 Nd7 5.0-0 Be7 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Ng5 Bxg5 8.Qh5 Qe7 9.Qxg5 Qxg5 10.Bxg5 Nc5 11.f3 Be6 12.Be2 Nf6 13.Nd2 Nfd7 14.Nc4 f6 15.Be3 Bxc4 16.Bxc4 Ke7 17.Rfd1 Rhd8 18.a4 a5 19.b3 b6 20.Kf2 Nb7 21.h4 Ndc5 22.Bf1 h5 23.Ke1 g6 24.g3 Rd6 25.Bh3 Rad8 26.Rdb1 Ra8 27.Rd1 Rad8 28.Rxd6 Nxd6 29.Ke2 Rb8 30.Rd1 Ne6 31.c3 b5 32.Ra1 bxa4 33.Rxa4 Rxb3 34.Rxa5 Nb5 35.Kd2 Kd6 36.Bf1 Na3 37.Bd3 Nb1+ 38.Bxb1 Rxb1 39.Ra7 Rb2+ 40.Ke1 Rb1+ 41.Ke2 Rb2+ 42.Ke1 Rb1+ ½-½
Sanz Alonso,F (2415) - Dreev,A (2625) [C41]
Oviedo rapid Oviedo (7), 1991
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.0-0-0 Nxe3 11.Qxe3 Re8 12.Qf2 Qg5+ 13.Kb1 Qc5 14.Bb5 Nd7 15.Ba4 a6 16.Bb3 Nf6 17.Rhf1 Bd7 18.Ne4 Qb6 19.Ng5 Re7 20.Rd2 Rae8 21.c3 c5 22.Nc2 Qc7 23.Qh4 Bf5 24.g4 Qf4 25.Rfd1 Qxd2 0-1
And also there are Philidor games by Adams, Sokolov, Piket, Georgiev, Nisipanu etc.
Originally posted by TovMauzerI'll amend and say no Grandmaster would play the Philidor in a non-rapid tourney against other Grandmasters if you think that's a major concession. Please inform me when the Philidor was last played in a World Championship match (or a Candidates match or a Qualifier, etc.).
Philidor occasionally played by GMs below and above Larsen level (though mostly in rapid games):
Stein,L (2605) - Petrosian,T (2640) [C41]
Alekhine mem Moscow (3), 26.11.1971
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7 5.Bc4 Be7 6.0-0 0-0 7.a4 c6 8.a5 h6 9.Ba2 Re8 10.dxe5 dxe5 11.Qe2 Bf8 12.Rd1 Qc7 13.Nh4 Nc5 14.Nf5 Kh7 15.Qf3 Ng8 16.b4 Ne6 17.Rb1 g6 18.Ne ...[text shortened]... 0-1
And also there are Philidor games by Adams, Sokolov, Piket, Georgiev, Nisipanu etc.
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Originally posted by no1marauderOk,so no reason,other than everyone says so.If that's good enough for you,fine.Not for me,I'd much rather 'jerk around' and make up my own mind.
I play the Sicilian Najdorf (if I can) so that answers no. It's obvious no grandmaster below the level of Larsen would ever play the Philidor opening (check the databases); so if you guys want to jerk around that's ...[text shortened]... k or alternatively, please' please play the Philidor against me!!
The Philidor,Larsen variation,which is the only line being recommended here,is playable.It is risky,it is not the best opening to choose,but honestly,if it can't be French,Sicilian,Caro-Kann,Alekhine Defense,Ruy Lopez or Scandinavian,then what else is there to recommend?There is the Pirc,but I know from earlier threads Paul doesn't like that at all.We're running out of options here.
Originally posted by SirLoseALot...e5?
Ok,so no reason,other than everyone says so.If that's good enough for you,fine.Not for me,I'd much rather 'jerk around' and make up my own mind.
The Philidor,Larsen variation,which is the only line being recommended here,is playable.It is risky,it is not the best opening to choose,but honestly,if it can't be French,Sicilian,Caro-Kann,Alekhine Defen ...[text shortened]... t I know from earlier threads Paul doesn't like that at all.We're running out of options here.
...petroff...
and anyway, all those openings you mentioned (French, Sicilian, Caro-Kann, Alekhine Defense) are better than philidor, it was a crappy chice. I destroyed paultopia when he played the philidor becuse the philor is all about accurate and meticulous defense and paultopia is an attacking player. if you are bent larsen then you can attack with the philidor but for 99& of people, even with you 'larsen' variation the phildor is a very defensive set up...
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Originally posted by paultopiafunny how sir lot has yet to answer the great question posed by his friend paultopia...
Sir Lot? Tony? You guys wanna look at that game? Ignoring the knight blunder at the end from a better position, how do folks think I could have answered Bg5 without making my king permanantly unsafe?
Originally posted by SirLoseALotYou have a point, but if Paul can't be converted to the Sicilian (I would think it fits his game) probably the best choice left is the Petroff although you have to be aware of its little traps. It's pretty solid and pretty simple but I see a few really good players on the site are using it (Cludi recently beat me in a siege game with it).
Ok,so no reason,other than everyone says so.If that's good enough for you,fine.Not for me,I'd much rather 'jerk around' and make up my own mind.
The Philidor,Larsen variation,which is the only line being recommended here,is playable.It is risky,it is not the best opening to choose,but honestly,if it can't be French,Sicilian,Caro-Kann,Alekhine Defen ...[text shortened]... t I know from earlier threads Paul doesn't like that at all.We're running out of options here.
By the way, I don't reject the Philidor 'cuz "everyone says so", I reject it because it leads to a cramped and difficult game for Black in my opinion. That this opinion is backed up by statistics in databases is something I would choose to consider, but if other people insist on playing inferior openings more power to them! Personally, I'm very happy to see 2 ...... d6 played against me!!
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Originally posted by GambitzoidDude,you must learn to read.Paul said in the very first post,he did NOT want to play all those openings.That they are better or not,is besides the point.Now you recommend the Petroff??I agree that it would be a sounder opening.But wasn't one of your arguments that the Philidor is drawish?The Petroff isn't?
funny how sir lot has yet to answer the great question posed by his friend paultopia...
You 'destroyed' Paul,because:
a.He ran into trouble after he got the move order wrong
b.after he was up a full piece and clearly winning!he blundered his knight.
Yep,you're right,that proves the unsoundness of the opening 🙄
Btw,Tony did answer his question in this thread.Maybe,in the future,you might want to update your facts,before you try to make fun of someone.
I sent him some lines to solve the 'pin problem' in a PM.