Originally posted by Ragnorakyes but I thought It would go like this
Can't say I have. I think that would just lose us at least a pawn straight away, still leave us hopelessly undeveloped, and our king would be extremely open and vulnerable. Apart from that, it looks good. 😉 😛
D
..... e5
Pxe5 000
e6 Qa5+ tell me what ya think?
Originally posted by RagnorakI agree, Ironman won't go this route, because 16. Be3 is forced. The variation will come sooner, but where?
[b]I'm still a bit worried about the last two variations posted.
buffalobill, I'm not sure that's how it would go. While your line looks good, and I can't really find fault with it, I just have this to say...IM isn't going to play a move which will leave him in a weaker position than another move. So basically, if one of these variations is to be pla ...[text shortened]... e ilywrin outlines above, because, while looking good in theory, the 16. Be3 is a weaker move, IMHO.
Originally posted by SamdoggGame 868388
what about Bb4 after Bd2?
Well apart from still being down the original pawn, after 15 ...Bb4 16. exd7+ Rxd7 17. Bxb4, then we'll go down a rook and a knight after 17 ...Qxb4+ 18. Rxb4
I dunno, I've a feeling its a bad move. 😉
D
Originally posted by Ragnoraksorry didn't see the rook gaurding the bishop
Game 868388
Well apart from still being down the original pawn, after 15 ...Bb4 16. exd7+ Rxd7 17. Bxb4, then we'll go down a rook and a knight after 17 ...Qxb4+ 18. Rxb4
I dunno, I've a feeling its a bad move. 😉
D
Originally posted by RagnorakOur good friend ilywrin has investigated 12 ...Qb6 to move 21, but we have not considered the 12 ...Bd6 line much past 14...Qb4. except for your above post. For instance:
one I mentioned firstly. ie: 12 ...Bd6 13 Bxd6 Qxd6 14 Ne4 Qb4. ... attacking 2 pieces at once, ...as he will maybe play 15. Nc3, thus giving us a little time to develop our last knight. Another possible move for him there is 15. Qc3 for the queen exchange
15. Nc3 Nf6 16. d5!! Qb6(ha) or Qe7(ouch) would we take b2 and face Rb1?
15. Qc3 doubled pawn for white unless 16. Nxc3 (just as well moved at 15.) or he could live with the doubled pawn and Rb1 later. After the queen exchange (assuming 16. bxc3 Nf6) how we deal with 17. Nd6+? goodbye b7, next up 18. Ne5
Since 12...Bd6 is leading in the vote what's the plan?
Why have u waited so long to do this? The discussion started on 23rd February. That's 9 days. I don't know why u didn't voice these concerns before the move was put to the vote. But anyway...
The next few moves are pretty much set in stone, if 12 ...Bd6 wins the vote. So 13. Bxd6 Qxd6 14. Ne4
That is when the move will be put to an important vote again, but to try to answer your q. If it went...14 ...Qb4+ 15. Nc3 Nf6 16. d5, then I'd be looking at Qd6 probably. Look at the board at that point. We're nearly even in terms of development and we look ok. We've gotten IM off the attack, and we can still castle either side. I don't know what else we could hope for considering a losing line was voted in early on.
Another option after 14 ...Qd4+ is 15 Qd3 for the queen exchange which would be great IMO. Hopefully, he'd take with 16. bxc3 (creating a doubled pawn). To combat 17. Nd6+, we'd have to play 16 ...Ke7. We'd have lost castling rights, but his attack is really blunted at that point.
Don't have the time or the inclination to go through every possibility at this stage.
D
Originally posted by RagnorakSorry, but being it is considered the best move, I was under the impression that someone had checked the 12 ...Bd6 line for variations. Since it's leading in the vote I thought to take a look at what you guys see in it. I was concerned that black may not get to develop the knight or castle, as previous thought.
Why have u waited so long to do this? The discussion started on 23rd February. That's 9 days. I don't know why u didn't voice these concerns before the move was put to the vote. But anyway...
The next few moves are pretty much set in stone, if 12 ...Bd6 wins the vote. So 13. Bxd6 Qxd6 14. Ne4
That is when the move will be put to an important v ...[text shortened]... .
Don't have the time or the inclination to go through every possibility at this stage.
D
The main variation goes 14...Qe7 which for some reason is considered stronger than 14...Qb4+ . The strongest move for White suggested by Botvinik (Botwinnik), I believe, in case of 14...Qb4 is considered to be 15.Qc3 Qxc3 16.bxc and after some knight acrobatics White captures the pawn at b7.However, I am pretty confident there are enough resources for Black.
As for 14...Qe7 the recommended move was 15.Qa3 again exchanging the queens.
Originally posted by ilywrin1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. Nf3 Nd7 7. h4 h6 8. h5 Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 Qc7 11. Rh4 e6 12. Bf4 Bd6 13. Bxd6 Qxd6 14. Ne4 Qb4+ 15. Qc3 Qxc3+ 16. bxc3 Ke7 17. Nc5 Nxc5 18. dxc5 *
The main variation goes 14...Qe7 which for some reason is considered stronger than 14...Qb4+ . The strongest move for White suggested by Botvinik (Botwinnik), I believe, in case of 14...Qb4 is considered to be 15.Qc3 Qxc3 16.bxc and after some knight acrobatics White captures the pawn at b7.However, I am pretty confident there are enough resources for Black.
As for 14...Qe7 the recommended move was 15.Qa3 again exchanging the queens.
The knight gymastics include playing 17. Nc5. For some reason, in some games, instead of creating the tripled pawn, black lets white capture b7. I haven't looked into it that much, but looking at the result of the above pgn, I'd be quite happy at that point.
Even if 14 .Qe7 15. Qa3 was played, I'd still be quite happy.
D