I've analysed games 1-7 as if Topolov and Kramnik were RHP engine abuse suspects. Both have similar match-up stats, and neither set of numbers are significantly above the expected levels for top flight GMs.
I think it is very sad that Team Topolov has made this Fritz9 accusation public. Is it just mind games? Or naivity? Maybe FIDE should have rules similar to RHP where accusations are kept out of the public domain.
[ conspiracy theory on ]
On the other hand, the level of interest in the match has gone through the roof with all this drama. When money and sport mix, maybe there is no such thing as bad publicity...
[ conspiracy theory off ]
Originally posted by no1marauderno1marauder, I'm merely giving my opinion on the game of chess in general. I'm far from good at the game (as you can see from my rating). I accept that my view may be wrong. It is just my opinion that psychology is a major part of chess, and many great chess players, one way or another, to a varying degree, used psychological means to win games; I mean apart from knowing tactics etc. Again, I may be wrong, but if you think I am a jerk, well, what more can I say.
Then you're a jerk.
Originally posted by 7ate9Yes, fully agreed. But where should one draw the line? We are just humans after all. We can't escape from the effects of psychology. We have all experienced being in a position where we're under a big attack. We think so hard and so long to make a single move, and then immediately after making that move, your opponent makes a quick reply. There is practically no recovery period. The result is that we're psychologically disavantaged at that point. What do we do then? Do we tell the opponent to make slower moves? Of course this is a lousy example, but I mean to show how in a real game, psychology has a major impact on the players.
I think it's alright to use psychology like any sports, but I seriously think those responsible have crossed major lines here. It would've been different in a less public place... but this is the WCC!!! It could ruin Kramnik's career, which is his LIFE!!! They should've thought about that before considering themselves so important.
I think an appology should be due.
As I've said in another thread, I'm not a great fan of Kramnik. I'd love to see Topalov getting the better of him. But after game 5, I'm not so sure if I still feel the same way. Officially, Topalov still won that game though.
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http://www.worldchess2006.com/main.asp?id=1058
"Today there were two separate press conferences instead of a joint one. When Kramnik was al-ready sitting in the press conference hall, Topalov suddenly refused leaving the stage: «I will not go; I'll give a separate press conference!» Vladimir sighed with relief and said: «Okay, this is even easier for me», and spent half of the twenty prescribed minutes in lively chatter. "
Topalov == the anti-role-model.
The match is over for Topalov, he is so scared of Kramnik, he won't even sit near him in a post-game conference.
The Fritz people must love it, so much free publicity and Danailov has basicaly stated in his last press release that "Fritz is so good, that Topalov can't even beat it"
Hmmm.... things are not looking good for Topalov. In spite of game 5, Kramnik is still ahead. And the bad news is that Kramnik is having the white pieces next. Looks like Danailov will have to come up with something better than the toilet visits?... hehehehehe. At the end of all this, if Kramnik wins in spite of game 5, he will gain even higher respect from everyone!
Originally posted by ckoh1965If you think it is alright to make noises and/or movements at the board in a deliberate attempt to trick your opponent, then you are wrong. You asserted such behavior was perfectly OK as a "psychological tactic'. In fact, it is simple poor sportmanship and would undoubtedly come under the heading of attempting to distract an opponent which is forbidden by USCF rules. If someone pulled that crap on me OTB, I'd bring it to the attention of the TD immediately.
no1marauder, I'm merely giving my opinion on the game of chess in general. I'm far from good at the game (as you can see from my rating). I accept that my view may be wrong. It is just my opinion that psychology is a major part of chess, and many great chess players, one way or another, to a varying degree, used psychological means to win games; I mean apar ...[text shortened]... g tactics etc. Again, I may be wrong, but if you think I am a jerk, well, what more can I say.
Originally posted by no1marauderWell, there you go. I told you I'm not that experienced. I honestly didn't know that one is not allowed to shake one's head OTB. I admit that making noises would be too much. By the way, in spite of all this, Kramnik doesn't seem to have been affected. He is still ahead as of now, and he plays white next! Would be interesting to know what would happen if he wins the next game.
If you think it is alright to make noises and/or movements at the board in a deliberate attempt to trick your opponent, then you are wrong. You asserted such behavior was perfectly OK as a "psychological tactic'. In fact, it is simple poor sportmanship and would undoubtedly come under the heading of attempting to distract an opponent which is forbidden b ...[text shortened]... . If someone pulled that crap on me OTB, I'd bring it to the attention of the TD immediately.
Originally posted by ckoh1965No, you can shake your head or make a disgusted look (to a degree anyway); that's a human reaction. What you can't do is fake such a reaction in an attempt to trick your opponent. That is poor sportsmanship in chess, though it is expected in poker and other games.
Well, there you go. I told you I'm not that experienced. I honestly didn't know that one is not allowed to shake one's head OTB. I admit that making noises would be too much. By the way, in spite of all this, Kramnik doesn't seem to have been affected. He is still ahead as of now, and he plays white next! Would be interesting to know what would happen if he wins the next game.
Originally posted by GatecrasherJust curious:
[b]I've analysed games 1-7 as if Topolov and Kramnik were RHP engine abuse suspects. Both have similar match-up stats, and neither set of numbers are significantly above the expected levels for top flight GMs.
Are the numbers above the expected levels for top flight RHP players?
If they are lower it would mean that our top RHP players play better correspondence chess than the top GMs OTB, making the quality play on RHP very high.