Opening ideas for black?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
everyone knows black is in trouble after 9. 0-0-0 or 9 Bc4.

as if! 😀

Somehow I don't think Rob is quite ready for the Sicilian.

Originally posted by Eladar
Somehow I don't think Rob is quite ready for the Sicilian.

at the very least it's not the opening you go to if you want to avoid learning a colossal amount of theory.

This is a fairly good, simple guide to quite a few openings:

http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
what do you play against 1.e4

I used to play 1..e5, but I got a bit bored and nowadays try 1..c5 quite often, not necessarily with more actual success though, but quite often exciting games result. Here's one where it worked:

Game 7913917

Originally posted by Eladar
Somehow I don't think Rob is quite ready for the Sicilian.

in the case of the dragon black accepts a weak d5 and a slightly inferior pawn structure
in the hope that his dragon bishop shall prevail, strategy in the dragon is not so
complicated, its the tactics that arise that can be the killer!

Originally posted by iamatiger
I used to play 1..e5, but I got a bit bored and nowadays try 1..c5 quite often, not necessarily with more actual success though, but quite often exciting games result. Here's one where it worked:

Game 7913917

crazy game, full of crazy positions. i like 29. .. Nc5, blocking check and giving check...

i can also just support .. c5 against e4, it seems full of fun stuff.

you can play Gruenfeld setup with black against almost any of white's moves i.e. (apart from again d4 leading to the "normal" Gruenfeld) against Reti-structure(Nf3, d3, c4/e4), dutch structure (f4, g3, Bg2), even e4 altho only the Alekhine and teh Scandinavian express the same provocative nature of the Gruenfeld.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
in the case of the dragon black accepts a weak d5 and a slightly inferior pawn structure
in the hope that his dragon bishop shall prevail, strategy in the dragon is not so
complicated, its the tactics that arise that can be the killer!

white's the one with crap pawn structure in dragon. the second he pushes his kingside pawns, black has a strong ending, often even with an exchange sac. after that white's only chance of survival is to mate first.

if white's not willing to give that pawn structure advantage, he has no play. and when you have no play in dragon (on either side), you get mated. quickly.

Originally posted by wormwood
white's the one with crap pawn structure in dragon. the second he pushes his kingside pawns, black has a strong ending, often even with an exchange sac. after that white's only chance of survival is to mate first.

if white's not willing to give that pawn structure advantage, he has no play. and when you have no play in dragon (on either side), you get mated. quickly.

Rec'd. Anyone thinking of learning the Dragon can skip the intro to any book now (unless there are annotated sample games), as you read it here first!

Agree with WW. Although as they say, before the ending is the middlegame. 🙂

Originally posted by nimzo5
Agree with WW. Although as they say, before the ending is the middlegame. 🙂

"before the endgame, the gods have placed middlegame." 🙂

Originally posted by wormwood
"before the endgame, the gods have placed middlegame." 🙂

sorry i dont see how white pawn structure is crappier than blacks,
perhaps a diagram shall suffice,

Robbie- The problem with your diagram is that no game would ever reach this position.

requisite position from my only OTB Dragon vs FM Gregory Young (when we were both sub 1800)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sorry i dont see how white pawn structure is crappier than blacks,
perhaps a diagram shall suffice,

in your diagram, white hasn't moved his kingside pawns. which means he's not trying to mate black. which in turn means black IS mating white.

THIS is the reality:


or this:


and after white makes those concessions, BOOM, Rxc3 bxc3. how do you like your pawn ending now, even up an exchange? (you're also a pawn down usually).



it's an opposite sides castling situation. white doesn't have the TIME to sit back and wait it out. and to get his own attack going, he absolutely MUST push his h, g or/and f pawn. which immediately turns his kingside pawns into a swiss cheese, to be hungrily gobbled by ravenous black knights, IF the game reaches endgame. after which the superior black pawns will steamroll white kingside with a devasting force. in some lines even being a rook up isn't enough to stop those pawns.


of course there are exceptions. but this is the general truth, the underlying problem for white.