PAWN RIOT VS The Forum Move 14

I might concede the point on 23...a4, but not on 23...Qc3, that ending is still much better for White.

Originally posted by ResigningSoon
23...Qc3 24. Qxc3 Bxc3 25.Bd4 b5! white has nothing 25.Rd3 Bxd4 etc.

23...a4 24.f6 exf6 25.gxf6 axb3! equality...

I like 23...a4 better to, but to show why 23...Qc3 is still ok here's more analysis:

23...Qc3 24. Qxc3 Bxc3 25.Bd4 b5 25.Rd3 Bxd4 26.Rxd4 Rc5 and we can grab the c-file

or

26...h6 and if gxh6 we have Kh7 probably equal (we can stick a rook on the g-file now)

white can try 27.h4 or Rg1 after which black has rook lifts on the c-file (Rc5 or Rc3) and can bring the king up to g7 or h7

With an eventual b4 the white king is boxed out.

I really don't see any white advantage. Just looks like a drawn rook ending.

14...Qc8 is my choice so far.

14...b5 is probably ok, but I don't trust it.

In the ...b5 line, what happens if he ignores our attack?
...b5 h4 ...b4 Nd2 ...Qc7 h5

Eventually we could use e5 to displace his knight so that only the king and queen are defending c2 but we still need another piece attacking it. And he can easily move his d rook to the c file. Or even put his knight on a1.

I don't expect these are best moves but if the game goes this way we might find all three major pieces on the c-file yet unable to make progress.

The line i am looking at right now is,

...b5 h4 ...b4 Nd2 ...Qc7 h4 ...e5? Nb3 ...Rc8? Na1 ...Ne8? hxg6

Originally posted by dzhafner
In the ...b5 line, what happens if he ignores our attack?
...b5 h4 ...b4 Nd2 ...Qc7 h5

Eventually we could use e5 to displace his knight so that only the king and queen are defending c2 but we still need another piece attacking it. And he can easily move his d rook to the c file. Or even put his knight on a1.

I don't expect these are best moves but ...[text shortened]... am looking at right now is,

...b5 h4 ...b4 Nd2 ...Qc7 h4 ...e5? Nb3 ...Rc8? Na1 ...Ne8? hxg6

If 15...b5 16.h4 b4 17.Nd2 Qc7 18.h5
...e5 invites h6 or hxg6

eg 19.h6 Bh8 20.Nf5! this doesn't look good (20...gxf5? 21.Bb6! oh snap!)

18...Rc8 is probably fine

Qa5 seems better than Qc7 though, some lateral protection on the 5th rank

But I really don't see PAWNRIOT not taking b5

ok, I hit a wall on the 14...Qb8 line after

15.h4 Rfc8 16.h5

in fact h4 h5 is difficult no matter what black plays (15...b5? maybe)

I'm starting to take another look at 14...b5 and 14...a6

If someone finds a nice line for black after 14...Qb8 15.h4 followed by 16.h5 please post.

Edit: 14...b5 15.Ndxb5 Qb8 this may be better, I see lots of black threats looming; strange, one of my lines with black was this reversed.

but after 15.b3 Rc8 we block in our queen, so now white can capture 16.Ndxb5.

maybe Qc8 is better than giving up a pawn, but it seems after Qc8 nothing will stop the h-file from opening up...or worse. I'll try to get further in the first line on this post.

I'm tired, it's late, someone else try to make this work.

14...Qb8 15.h4 b5 16.h5 b4 17.Nd5 Nxd5 18.exd5 Be5...

how about this.

19. hxg6 fxg6 and black at least has some lines to play on

and if instead he retreats the knight with 17Nce2 do we play ...Rec8?

then 18. hxg6 ...fxg6? 19. Rc1 stops the attack on the c-file i think.

perhaps if he neglects to play rc1 we could use e5 to displace the knight and play Rx2.
Seems like quite a stretch though.

Originally posted by dzhafner
and if instead he retreats the knight with 17Nce2 do we play ...Rec8?

then 18. hxg6 ...fxg6? 19. Rc1 stops the attack on the c-file i think.

perhaps if he neglects to play rc1 we could use e5 to displace the knight and play Rx2.
Seems like quite a stretch though.

17.Nce2 Rfc8 18.hxg6 fxg6 19.Rc1 i dunno the best plan for black here...Qc7? Rc7? a5?move the knight so the bishop has some scope(Ne8 or Nh7)? at least we have several plans to choose from...

Edit: go for broke with 17...a5?

actually, i think nf4 is even better than rc1 in this line.
e5 doesn't work
moving the knight to e8 leads to him doubling his queen on the h file
moving the knight to h5 and he just takes it

playing ...a5 after Nf4 is hopeless.

the end parts of this line look very very ugly.

does anyone have a way to redirect play earlier on?

...b5 h4 ...b4 Ne2 Qc7 h5 ...Rc8? hxg ...fxg Nf4! ...Qa5? g4 ...Qxg4 Nd5

perhaps ...hxg is better even though it opens the h- file?



what do you think?

Originally posted by dzhafner
actually, i think nf4 is even better than rc1 in this line.
e5 doesn't work
moving the knight to e8 leads to him doubling his queen on the h file
moving the knight to h5 and he just takes it

playing ...a5 after Nf4 is hopeless.

the end parts of this line look very very ugly.

does anyone have a way to redirect play earlier on?

...b5 h4 ...b4 N ...[text shortened]... xg4 Nd5

perhaps ...hxg is better even though it opens the h- file?



what do you think?

after Nf4, e5 is totally working...and winning for us probably

I vote 14...b5

winning after ...e5?
i can''t see it.

hxg ...fxg nf4 ...e5 nfe6 qb8(perhaps, bxe6 is even worse) nxg7 and then what ...kxg7 or ...exd4?

our king is ready for his walkabout and we haven't even touched white's castle.

14 ...b5

Originally posted by dzhafner
winning after ...e5?
i can''t see it.

hxg ...fxg nf4 ...e5 nfe6 qb8(perhaps, bxe6 is even worse) nxg7 and then what ...kxg7 or ...exd4?

our king is ready for his walkabout and we haven't even touched white's castle.

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. Be3 Bg7 7. f3 O-O 8. Qd2 Nc6 9. O-O-O Bd7 10. Bc4 Ne5 11. Bb3 Rc8 12. Kb1 Nc4 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. g4 Qb8 15. h4 b5 16. h5 b4 17. Nce2 Rfc8 18. hxg6 fxg6 19. Nf4 e5 20. Nfe6?? exd4

whats to see?

my mistake, i put the queen on c7 earlier instead of b8.
with the queen on b8 there is no tactical trick with nf4.
in light of this, i hope we do not play ...qc7

not sure how it might continue in this line.