PAWN RIOT VS The Forum Move 36

I am now voting 36...Nf5

if Kh7, then Re7 leads to a draw by repetition

Ok I don't the have courage to do the whole thing on Rc4 but I give a few lines. My conclusion is that Rc4 is not a good move. and Nf5 is better.

A. the "blitz line" is in our favor I would say:
36. ... Rc4 37. Rxe7 Rxd4 38. Rxe3 Rxh4.

B. then White would have to protect his Knight before moving his rook.
So one may consider c3.
As parshooter mentioned, after 36. ... Rc4 37. c3 there is 37. ... Nd1+ and white looses one pawn. For instance:
37. ... Nd1+ 38. Kb3 Rxc3+ 39. Kb4 R e3 protecting e7.

BUT, unfortunately, Black does not seem to have a better position after 37.c3 , since something like 38. Kc2 Nxc3 39. Kd2 Rc8 40. Rxe7 Kg8 41. Rxa7 and White is significantly better.



So 37. c3 is still to be considered after 36. ... Rc4, and if my lines are correct, I would say 37.c3 is a refutation. So that Nf5 is better.

pushing this up to the top of the list

Originally posted by paulbuchmanfromfics
Continued From Thread 114123.

35. ... Ne3 36.Kb2

Black To Move

[fen]8/p2Rpp1k/6p1/6Pp/r2N3P/4nP2/PKP5/8[/fen]

The Full Game

[pgn]1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.Be3 Bg7 7.f3 0-0 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.Bc4 Bd7 10.0-0-0 Rc8 11.Bb3 Ne5 12.Kb1 Nc4 13.Bxc4 Rxc4 14.g4 b5 15.b3 b4 16.bxc4 bxc3 17.Qxc3 Qc7 18.h4 h5 19.g ...[text shortened]... 29.Rd2 Rb4 30.Nb3 Ra4 31.Kb2 Ne4+ 32.Rd4 Nxf2 33.Rxd7 Nd1+ 34.Kc1 Bxd4 35.Nxd4 Ne3 36.Kb2 [/pgn]

I notice that macpo keeps saying that Ne6 will be a problem. Well, I have a solution to that problem and that solution takes the form of 36...Kg8!

37.Rxe7? Nd1+! -+

37.Kb3 Rc4 38.Rxe7 Rxd4 39.Rxe3 Rxh4

37.c3 e5 and white can't play Ne6 so 38.Nc6 Rxh4 and not only will our h pawn be passed but if white plays 39.Nxa7 then our e pawn will be too.
If 39.Nxe5 then 39...Rf4 40.Rxa7 h4! And 39.Rxa7 just transposes.

And to placate Robbie, 36...Kg8 looks aesthetically pleasing.


Now discuss!

Actually, scratch that. I'm still voting 36...Nf5

On your line after Rc4:

after

36...Rc4 37.c3 e5 38.Ne6 Rxh4 39.Rxf7+ Kg8 There is Rg7+ as you mentioned.

and after

38.... Nf5 39.Rxf7+ Kg8 White can get a perpetual check I think: 40. Rf8+ Kh7 41. Rf7+ Kg8 etc.
so that's not bad; we get a draw. But maybe there is better.


On Kg8, what about this line:

- 36. ... Kg8 37. c3 e5 38. Kb3 Rc4 39. Nc2 looks favorable to white.

in that case, Black may consider a quality sacrifice like this:

- ... Kg8 37. c3 e5 38. Kb3 exd4 39. Kxa4 40. dxc3

and white may have to sacrifice his rook to prevent the pawn promotion... But that's not sure; in fact I think white can bring back his king and put is Rook on c4 to get the pawn quietly.

Other possibilities are:

- ... Kg8 37. c3 e5 38. Kb3 Ra6 and then White has to move his knight to not very convincing places like Nc2 or Nb5, both followed by Nf5 I would say. and h4 shall fall.

h4 SHALL FALL.

hum hum

Finally I think there are two interests in playing Kg8:

1. avoiding Ne6 threats as tomtom mentioned
2. delaying our other moves, in order to force him to lay bare his game.
With our knight still on e3, we still threaten nd1, he cannot exchange knights on f5 and so on.


and also, 37. Re8+ should be considered, since it will bring to Kh7 (potential perpetual check) or Kg7 (exposing the king to Ne6; but at the same time protecting f7).

Originally posted by tomtom232
Actually, scratch that. I'm still voting 36...Nf5

why?

I think black is doing good in the Kg8 variation after 38...Ra2 instead of Rc4

hmm a2 is protected by the king on b2 no?

Originally posted by Macpo
On your line after Rc4:

after

36...Rc4 37.c3 e5 38.Ne6 Rxh4 39.Rxf7+ Kg8 There is Rg7+ as you mentioned.

and after

38.... Nf5 39.Rxf7+ Kg8 White can get a perpetual check I think: 40. Rf8+ Kh7 41. Rf7+ Kg8 etc.
so that's not bad; we get a draw. But maybe there is better.


On Kg8, what about this line:

- 36. ... Kg8 37. c3 e5 38. Kb3 ...[text shortened]... tential perpetual check) or Kg7 (exposing the king to Ne6; but at the same time protecting f7).

Well after c3 the rook can never go to c4 unless white move his knight. So instead of 38...Rc4 black can play 38...Ra6


BUT I still like 36...Nf5 because I can't find any way for white to turn the tables. RS said that white has a cute tactic if black puts his king on g7 but black need not put his king on g7. This does lead to perpetual but I doubt we can do much to avoid a draw in other lines either and after 36...Nf5 I think we will have the greatest chance for a win than any other path. 37...Kg8 may avoid any perpetuals. For example, 36...Nf5 37.c3 Kg8 38.Kb3 Ra5 39.Nxf5 Rxf5 40.Rxe7 Rf4 41.Rxa7 Rxh4 42.a4 Rh1 43.a5 h4 44.a6 h3 and its looking pretty good for us. Of course there will be improvements on this line though.

Originally posted by Macpo
why?

Because of 36...Kg8 37.Kb3 Rc4 c3.... I don't like the way that looks for us. We can delay ...Kg8 like I mentioned previously.

Ok i get your point. I think, though, that there is this Kg8 line, which is still worth of interest for us.


36. ... Kg8 37. c3 e5 38. Kb3 Ra6 and then White has to move his knight to not very convincing places like Nc2 or Nb5, both followed by Nf5 I would say. and h4 shall fall.

Any comments on this? Where is the White trick 😀

EDIT: ok I got it! after Kb3 our rook almost has to go on c4 (otherwise our situation is sad: since white can play c4 straight for instance, or more simply take e7, since there is no more pressure on the white knight).
and when it goes to c4, c3 followed by Knight c2 makes us lose quality.
is that it?

Originally posted by Macpo
Ok i get your point. I think, though, that there is this Kg8 line, which is still worth of interest for us.


36. ... Kg8 37. c3 e5 38. Kb3 Ra6 and then White has to move his knight to not very convincing places like Nc2 or Nb5, both followed by Nf5 I would say. and h4 shall fall.

Any comments on this? Where is the White trick 😀

Ta da! I haves cure for this 36...e5 first!! Then ...Kg8 because if 37.Rxf7+ check 37...Kg8 is winning for us.

Edit: I am also liking 36...a5

hmm I like this... looks offensive 🙂

I guess the answer would be Ne6 though... followed by:

36. ... e5 37. Ne6 Kg8 38. Rd8+ Kh7 39. Nf8+ Kg7 40. Nd7
and whatever happens, Nf6 and Rg8 are coming...