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Q for the Grob enthusiasts

Q for the Grob enthusiasts

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p
chaotic patzer

Campinas, SP; Brazil

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I have a question regarding this opening. I have noted that after 1.g4 reply is usually 2.bg1. However if 1. ...is d5(or6) this leaves the pawn vulnerable to 2. ... Bxg4. Why not 2.h3 or f3 to protect the pawn?

FL

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After 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4, Black is no longer protecting the b7 pawn with his bishop. White can put pressure on this with moves like c4, Qb3 etc.

z

127.0.0.1

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Originally posted by pawntorook4
I have a question regarding this opening. I have noted that after 1.g4 reply is usually 2.bg1. However if 1. ...is d5(or6) this leaves the pawn vulnerable to 2. ... Bxg4. Why not 2.h3 or f3 to protect the pawn?
Thats 2. Bg2 and I believe the reason is
1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 would be my inclination as dxc5, Bxb7 and black must also watch out for Qa4+

Doh! beaten to the punch and Qb3 is probably better than Qa4+ but I merely pointed it out to show that a careless move like e6 would hang the bishop on g4.

DF
Lord of all beasts

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Originally posted by pawntorook4
I have a question regarding this opening. I have noted that after 1.g4 reply is usually 2.bg1. However if 1. ...is d5(or6) this leaves the pawn vulnerable to 2. ... Bxg4. Why not 2.h3 or f3 to protect the pawn?
Taking the pawn is greedy.

The threat is c4 followed by Qb3 and white brings tremendous pressure to bear on b7.

It is safer for black to play for black square dominance as these lines create most problems for white. The pawn structure c6 - d5 - e5 is probably best giving the following position with white to move.

d

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I stopped playing the Grob after a clubmate showed me that the whole opening is flawed, based on the pressure on the h1-a8 diagonal, since black can sac the rook!

Edit: Well technically sac the exchange, via the fritz gambit line.

b
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Traxler is Sound!

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After 30 minutes of analysis, Crafty concluded on my computer that taking the pawn is the best move. It's not as safe, but it is objectively better.

z

127.0.0.1

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Originally posted by ih8sens
After 30 minutes of analysis, Crafty concluded on my computer that taking the pawn is the best move. It's not as safe, but it is objectively better.
Objectively speaking, taking a engines advice on move one is a bad idea.

b
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Originally posted by zebano
Objectively speaking, taking a engines advice on move one is a bad idea.
why?
Crafty is supposed to have a rating double to mine.

w
If Theres Hell Below

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Originally posted by zebano
Objectively speaking, taking a engines advice on move one is a bad idea.
especially on openings. engines just can't see far enough, and they'll tell you a move is safe if there's even a single obscure way to defend the position against a million losing ways. but humans just can't defend like a machine.

DF
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Originally posted by ih8sens
why?
Crafty is supposed to have a rating double to mine.
Crafty cannot correctly assess the strategic nuances behind an opening and cannot see beyond the apparent winning of an early pawn.

However BXg4 is likely to give black a long term strategical disadvantage and it is far safer to avoid this option and go for a solid pawn structure and play on the black squares when black should gain the long term strategic advantage from this opening.

Crafty along with all other chess engines will invariably assess the winning of any gambited pawn as being better (providing of course you are nnot using its opening book). If this was indeed the case gambits would always lose but practice shows this not to be the case.

K
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Here is analysis which I have posted in this forum some months ago

1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 (white else white can do?) c6!

Here white have 2 main possibilities

I)4.cxd5 cxd5 (black can play also 4...Nf6 and after 5.dxc6 Nxc6 they will have advantage due to their better development, but white can play 5.Qb3 Qd7 line II) 5.Qb3 Nf6 6.Qxb7 (what else) Nbd7 7.Nc3 (7.Bxd5?? Rb8!) e6 8.Nb5 Rb8 9.Nxc7+ Ke7 10.Qxa7 Qc8! (preparing d8 for black king and threating with Rb7) 11.Qa5 Nb6 (with idea of Nc4) and black has more active pieces and powerful inicative for pawn. Rybka rates this position about -.0,10 -0,30

II)4.Qb3 Qd7 5.cxd5 Nf6 6.Nc3 cxd5 7.Nxd5 Nc6 8.Ne3 (after 8.Nxf6+ exf6 black has serious lead in development) Rc8 with better play for black because white have problems with their king - they cant castle to queenside and if they castle to kingside black will have strong attack. Rybka rates this position about -0,25


This is the reason why after 1.g4 d5 I would prefer 2.h3

DF
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The Grob wins at blitz.

[Event "RHP Blitz rated"]
[Site "www.redhotpawn.com"]
[Date "2007.5.8"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dragon Fire"]
[Black "mazziewag"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. g2-g4 d7-d5 2. Bf1-g2 e7-e5 3. h2-h3 Nb8-c6 4. c2-c4 Ng8-e7 5. Qd1-b3 d5xc4 6. Qb3xc4 Bc8-e6 7. Qc4-c2 g7-g6 8. Nb1-c3 Bf8-g7 9. d2-d3 O-O 10. a2-a3 Qd8-d7 11. Ng1-f3 Ra8-d8 12. Bc1-g5 h7-h6 13. Bg5-h4 Rf8-e8 14. Ra1-c1 g6-g5 15. Bh4-g3 Ne7-g6 16. Nc3-e4 Ng6-f4 17. Bg3xf4 e5xf4 18. Ne4-c5 Qd7-e7 19. Nc5xb7 Rd8-b8 20. Nb7-c5 Rb8xb2 21. Qc2-a4 Rb2xe2 22. Ke1xe2 Be6-b3 23. Qa4-e4 Nc6-d4 24. Nf3xd4 Bg7xd4 25. Qe4xe7 Re8xe7 26. Bg2-e4 1-0

Pretty c*** really.

z

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Originally posted by pawntorook4
I have a question regarding this opening. I have noted that after 1.g4 reply is usually 2.bg1. However if 1. ...is d5(or6) this leaves the pawn vulnerable to 2. ... Bxg4. Why not 2.h3 or f3 to protect the pawn?
That's a mickey mouse opening simply put. I was never one to mince words so I've put it as nicely as possible.

K
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Riga

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Originally posted by z00t
That's a mickey mouse opening simply put. I was never one to mince words so I've put it as nicely as possible.
I`m still awaiting when you will show us refutation of this opening 😀

z

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Originally posted by Korch
I`m still awaiting when you will show us refutation of this opening 😀
The definition of what the grob is on wikipedia and here are different so give the lines you are saying are the grob.

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