Originally posted by cmsMasterBlack cannot castle without playing h5 (wasting valuable tempo), and g6 deprives the knight of any useful square to jump to. But Kbauman is right (though I haven't looked at his line yet); even against the castled position white has a lot of options.
O-O is better than g6 - but still not great for black. But why is O-O better than g6? Don't look too deep into tactics, just give me a line that you would play as white about three moves deep after each - it has more to do with positional chess than tactical chess really.
Originally posted by Ramiri15I think you've maybe mis-analyzed 11...O-O a bit. It's not good for black - but it's certainly not 1-0.
Black cannot castle without playing h5 (wasting valuable tempo), and g6 deprives the knight of any useful square to jump to. But Kbauman is right (though I haven't looked at his line yet); even against the castled position white has a lot of options.
Originally posted by cmsMasterWell I only suggested g6 in the first place because it prevented whatever attack you had at that moment, which is what I thought you were asking for.
You know what, it's not really fair for me to have you tell me which one is better. But here was the point I was trying to make, after 11...g6? 12.Qh3! black's really tied up - castling is definitely out of the question and black is pretty well beat. After 11...O-O 12.Nf3 Nbd7 black's definitely worse, but can at least play on.
Originally posted by Ramiri15I was vague, sorry, but 11...g6 is definitely a bad move - all of black's counterplay gets sapped - it's definitely a very good position for white.
Well I only suggested g6 in the first place because it prevented whatever attack you had at that moment, which is what I thought you were asking for.
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Originally posted by Ramiri15I'm not sure about that, I haven't really found many attacking options for white in that position - what did you have in mind?
I was responding to your "why is g6 worse?" question. And I didn't say O-O was 1-0, just that white had a lot of attacking options.
BTW: Here's what I came up with, I think white would eventually win a pawn from it -
11...O-O 12.e5 Nf5 13.Bxf5 exf5 14.Nf3 Be4 15.Nd2
Well, you know what...I don't even know anymore - they both seem good actually. The position is confusing the crap out of F9 though - I found 12.e5 instead of Fritz, and after seeing it Fritz just seems more confused. 😕
Originally posted by cmsMasterI was thinking along the lines of an e5 pawn push, where even if black takes on g2 it simply opens up a file for the rook. However Nf6 prevents a lot of any attack, so perhaps you're right, though at first glance it seemed like with four pieces converging upon the castled king, white would have very good attacking chances.
I'm not sure about that, I haven't really found many attacking options for white in that position - what did you have in mind?
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Originally posted by cmsMasterActually yeah.
11...O-O 12.e5 Nf5 13.Bxf5 exf5 14.Nf3 Be4 15.Nd2
15. Nd2 Qd5
16. c4 Qc6
17. d5 Qg6
Edit: That "actually yeah" comment was in response to an earlier edit I had made where I deleted a line because I thought it didn't work, so yeah. There's five edits for ya 😛.
Originally posted by Ramiri15Should have edited it one more time to say "there are five edits for ya."
Actually yeah.
15. Nd2 Qd5
16. c4 Qc6
17. d5 Qg6
Edit: That "actually yeah" comment was in response to an earlier edit I had made where I deleted a line because I thought it didn't work, so yeah. There's five edits for ya 😛.
Originally posted by RahimKOh yeah, I didn't see that. I was kind a sleepy so I was missing a lot. At the same time I was playing some blitz games on FICS and I understood that I shouldn't have played.
3.Bxe4?? Leads to mate after 3...Qxf2+ 4.Kh1 Bxe4# or 4.Bg2 Qxg2#
Correct is 3.Qd4 Qxd4 4.Nxd4 Nxf2 and white is up a pawn.