Originally posted by hammster21It's actually very similar in concept to the one you presented, just rather more complicated. If you place the white king on e3 and then work out where the black king needs to be, you'll be on the right lines. I'm off to bed now, getting late over here. Happy solving!
Ok, I'm going to to do this in stages here so, If anyone wants to add anything or just solve it, go ahead.
From what I can tell, White can possibly invade blacks camp in two places, While Black cannot break into whites camp. The closest requires a pawn push on g5. Either black will take it or white will push it which will make black spend time takin ...[text shortened]... on is through the squares d4 to c5. Now the corresponding squares thing is going to be a pain.
Originally posted by Northern LadI don't think it matters where white's king is. White needs to get to c5 but, Black can prevent white to getting there by shuffling between two squares, b6 and c6. Unless white can use the pawn push, I'm going to say its a draw.
It's actually very similar in concept to the one you presented, just rather more complicated. If you place the white king on e3 and then work out where the black king needs to be, you'll be on the right lines. I'm off to bed now, getting late over here. Happy solving!
Originally posted by Northern LadIs this from Dvoretsky? Makes me head hurts.
This is a classical case of corresponding squares rather than the opposition (though the latter does of course play a part). The theory and practice of corresponding squares seems to have more to do with mathematics than chess, which is perhaps why it took me nearly an hour and a half to solve. (Well, I think I've solved it, but I haven't checked it wit ...[text shortened]... games with kings and a few pawns can be; would be a nightmare trying to work it all out OTB!
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Originally posted by Northern LadWith the White king on e3, the Black king must be on d7. And this correspondence must be such that it is White to move, otherwise Black will lose.
If you place the white king on e3 and then work out where the black king needs to be, you'll be on the right lines.
[Supposing the above with Black to move. Black would have to play Kc6/c7 in order to stop Kd4-c5, but this puts the Black king too far from the kingside and allows e.g. Kc7, Kf4, Kd7, g5, Ke8 (hg+, Kxg5, Ke8, Kh6 +-), g6, hg (Kf8, gh, Kg7 and White plays Ke3-d4-c5), hg, Kf8, Kg4, Kg8, Kh5, Kg7, b3 +-]
So need a sequence of moves that causes Black to break the correspondence. As I work through I note other corresponding squares...
With White to move, corresponding squares are:
Ke3 / Kd7
Kd3 / Kc7
Kd4 / Kc6 (if Black was on b6 it prevents Kc5 but allows Ke3 and the correspondence is broken since Black cannot play Kd7; see Ke3 / Kd7 "rule" )
I've ran out of time for now... I'll try more later. Unfortunately I've only covered the easy part; the main hurdles are yet to come...
Originally posted by VarenkaActually, you've done the main bit now. It's relatively easy if somewhat laborious to work backwards and establish corresponding squares for almost all the squares the white king can visit. As I said in an earlier post, it probably has more to do with maths than chess!
With the White king on e3, the Black king must be on d7. And this correspondence must be such that it is White to move, otherwise Black will lose.
[Supposing the above with Black to move. Black would have to play Kc6/c7 in order to stop Kd4-c5, but this puts the Black king too far from the kingside and allows e.g. Kc7, Kf4, Kd7, g5, Ke8 (hg+, Kxg5, Ke8, ...[text shortened]... later. Unfortunately I've only covered the easy part; the main hurdles are yet to come...
Originally posted by Northern LadI agree with Varenka's analysis. Looking deeper (and hopefully without mistakes) I conclude that all corresponding squares on black's side for the lower three ranks can be found on the four squares c8, c7, d8, d7 meaning white cannot put bkack on the wrong foot, because none of white king's adjacent squares have a correspondence on the same square, and each of the four black king's squares are reachable in one move from the other. My vote is for draw. Surprising result, so I assume I made an analysis error. For that purpose here are my correspondences:
Actually, you've done the main bit now. It's relatively easy if somewhat laborious to work backwards and establish corresponding squares for almost all the squares the white king can visit. As I said in an earlier post, it probably has more to do with maths than chess!
g1 d7
h2 c7
h3 d8
g3 d7
f1 d8
g2 c8
f2 c7
e2 c8
e3 d7
d3 c7
c3 d7
e1 d7
d1 c7
d2 d8
c2 c8
the 'cross'-moves in black's defense are special. In many cases, correspondence squares tend to be colour-dependent. One other puzzle (I) posted before was a pure heterodox opposition problem (black moves always to a different colour than the white king).
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Equally clear is that black must be able to play Kc6 against Kd4 and Ke8 against Kf4 or Kh4. It's then not too difficult to work out that d3/c7 and c3/d7 are corresponding squares. Then you can do what Mephisto has done and work backwards and find all the corresponding squares. You will then find out that the corresponding square for h1 is indeed d8.
So the original position (diagram of previous post) with white to move is in fact a draw on best play, e.g. 1.Kg1 Kd7! 2.Kf1 Kd8! 3.Kg2 Kc8! 4.Kh2 Kc7! 5.Kg3 Kd7! 6.Kf3 Kd8! 7.Ke2 Kc8! 8.Kd2 Kd8! 9.Kc2 Kc8! 10.Kc3 Kd7! 11.Kd3 Kc7! and white can't force black to allow the above position with black to move.
Note that every black move is an 'only' move. If black for example had played 1...Kc7? (after 1.Kg1) white can win following the corresponding squares method by 2.Kh2! Kd8 3.Kh3! (3.Kh1! also wins) Kd7 4.Kg3 Kd8 5.Kf3 Kd7 6.Ke3 etc. So it also follows that black to move in the original position loses, e.g. 1...Kd7 2.Kg1! or 1...Kc8 2.Kg2! or 1...Kc7 2.Kh2!
Of course, in practice, if you hadn't seen the position before, it would be almost impossible to find the correct move every time OTB. I once knew a guy who made money out of this position. He challenged people (including strong players) to choose to either play for a win with white or a draw with black. He won every single bet I saw!
Originally posted by Northern LadI was thinking about trying to solve the puzzle, but then I passed out - too hard. 🙂
[fen]8/3kp2p/4p2p/1p2P2P/1P2P1P1/4K3/1P6/8[/fen]
Equally clear is that black must be able to play Kc6 against Kd4 and Ke8 against Kf4 or Kh4. It's then not too difficult to work out that d3/c7 and c3/d7 are corresponding squares. Then you can do what Mephisto has done and work backwards and find all the corresponding squares. You will then find out t ...[text shortened]... se to either play for a win with white or a draw with black. He won every single bet I saw!
Originally posted by hammster21Are you sure you have the right position? 1...Rd3 and 1..e3 win on the spot while 1...Kd5 and 1...Rc4 are also very strong. I would probably have resigned this position already.
Endgame # 5?
[fen]8/3K4/P4R1P/1Pppr1P1/1p3Pp1/p4k2/5p2/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]
Black to play and win
Black has held the advantage all game long. Now he wants to go in for the kill. 2 questions for you all.
-Will Rd3, preparing a rook trade, win for black
-What would you play and your idea behind it
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Originally posted by hammster21You're setting the boards up wrong. With FENs you should ALWAYS view it from white's POV - no matter who's to move.
Endgame # 5?
[fen]8/3K4/P4R1P/1Pppr1P1/1p3Pp1/p4k2/5p2/8 b - - 0 1[/fen]
Black to play and win
Black has held the advantage all game long. Now he wants to go in for the kill. 2 questions for you all.
-Will Rd3, preparing a rook trade, win for black
-What would you play and your idea behind it
Originally posted by Northern LadGame 3406393
Are you sure you have the right position? 1...Rd3 and 1..e3 win on the spot while 1...Kd5 and 1...Rc4 are also very strong. I would probably have resigned this position already.
From this point on it was a pretty easy win but Black was only up a pawn and white had chances with his queen side majority. He resigned a few moves after I played Rd3. cmsMaster I set up these games like this because they are taken from actual games.