I'm getting pretty tired of seeing individuals using Vacation to circumvent The Clock (Timeout & Timebank).
If you are on Vacation, you shouldn't be moving, and if you are, then do not be surprised if the word "cheat" is used.
In my own view, if you set Vacation, you should not be able to move at all, or reset Vacation within 72 hours of turning it off.
Your views?
Originally posted by ZadadkaDon't agree at all, sorry. Someone may well be on vacation, but manages to get to a computer to make a few moves. I've done it myself.
I'm getting pretty tired of seeing individuals using Vacation to circumvent The Clock (Timeout & Timebank).
If you are on Vacation, you shouldn't be moving, and if you are, then do not be surprised if the word "cheat" is used.
In my own view, if you set Vacation, you should not be able to move at all, or reset Vacation within 72 hours of turning it off.
Your views?
Why would you prefer someone to not move? How does that improve anything?
Originally posted by Zadadka.. Perhaps you do not understand RHPs implementation of vacation.... THEY STILL LOSE TIME. They simply cannot be timed out. By your reasoning, if a player is playing a 1/3 game, goes on vacation for a week. When he comes back he must
I'm getting pretty tired of seeing individuals using Vacation to circumvent The Clock (Timeout & Timebank).
If you are on Vacation, you shouldn't be moving, and if you are, then do not be surprised if the word "cheat" is used.
In my own view, if you set Vacation, you should not be able to move at all, or reset Vacation within 72 hours of turning it off.
Your views?
1. Wait for his vacation flag to expire.
2. Move immediately
Why? because in between that vacation flag dropping and his moving he can be timed out.
This is not how gameknot's vacation system works, but this is not gameknot (or any other competing correspondence system).
I'm currently "on vacation" and still moving. When you set your vacation days RHP warns you to be aware of time zone differences and the possible need to add an additional day to compensate for that. I was playing a fast rate game with a guy in Germany (+7 hours on Texas time, I think?) and was worried if I got back late from my real life gone-to-the-seashore vacation, I might be timed out. So I added Monday as a vacation day. I got back Sunday night and started catching up on my games, but I could not cancel the Monday vacation day (something to do with GMT?). I could also see the situations where someone got back early from a holiday or found an internet cafe at their vacation site (my wife threatened me with bodily harm if I even looked at a chessboard this past week-end) 🙂
When I was on vacation in June, I had some very complex games and many easier ones (opening phase, won position etc.). So, when I had time (that wasn't very often), I moved only in the easier games just to do not use my time banks and because there wasn't much to think. However, I resisted to touch the hard ones until I came back from vacation and had the time to think deep enough to find suitable moves.
I think what Zadadka is referring to specifically, are people who enter 1/0 tournaments or agree to short time challenges, then after a few days decide that they can't move a move a day in each game, so take advantage of the vacation function.
It's a pain, but hey, we aren't all blessed with time management skills and, such is life, those who take advantage of the system will learn to improve them, and 6 months down the line will probably be posting similar messages
I do agree in principle though
OK, thanks to all for the replies...
No, I haven't yet called anyone "cheat", and don't really to wish to do so, which is why I sought my peers' opinions.
Mad Mac is pretty much on the money as to "where I'm coming from"...although I would point out that my time-management skills are little (if no) better than anyone else's (🙂), but I recognise my obligation is to move, or else lose on the clock...
I feel the game should continue to be played as if we sat across a table from one another, and as such, we might agree to "freeze time" whilst our opponent is on vacation (hope that makes more sense to Zebano), but a dim view would be taken if s/he popped-in for the occasional move; it could be construed that s/he were using, or even abusing, a loop-hole to gain "consideration time" advantage over The Clock....and I see exactly this happening...particularly in tourneys.
Some of you have even "admitted" to this manoeuvre, and whilst I have some sympathy for those with LOTS of games, or very complex ones, do remember that if we WERE across tables, many of you would be repetitive losers on time in many of those games.
Yes, it's great if you can get a move in whilst you are legitimately away, but if you can do this practically every day, as can be seen in some behaviours, then you aren't really on Vacation... are you?....
...and finally....
Do we not know when we will be away / on holidays or vacation?....so why start games that you know will be impacted by this?
The answer in over 90% of cases will be yes, we do know, and that, my friends, is why I feel it is abuse.
Anyway, having had my little rant, I'll now go back to cussing under my breath...
Zad
(PS : I notice I am not / have not been alone in expressing this view)
Originally posted by ZadadkaLet me see if I understood you right.
OK, thanks to all for the replies...
No, I haven't yet called anyone "cheat", and don't really to wish to do so, which is why I sought my peers' opinions.
Mad Mac is pretty much on the money as to "where I'm coming from"...although I would point out that my time-management skills are little (if no) better than anyone else's (🙂), but I recognise my obl ...[text shortened]...
Zad
(PS : I notice I am not / have not been alone in expressing this view)
You want to play correspondence as if you were sitting across the board from your opponent... Why not just find a club or play games on ICC, FICS, Playchess, chesslive, yahoo, pogo etc.?? Should we also not use databases since you cannot do that in over the board chess? They are different games.
You do have a point that some people abuse it insofar as they use it when not on vacation to gain time. However, to say that
1. You are on vacation, hopping into an online cafe and moving should not be allowed is just silly.
2. Planning... A game here can be finished in under a day and a game can be finished over the course of a year. Besides that, I advance to round two or three in many tournaments. It is simply not possible to plan for all this despite what you may think. Should we also schedule when our loved ones need an emergency trip to the hospital?
I personally like the RHP implementation of vacation because of #1. I personally don't own a laptop, but my father (and my father in law) do. When we vacation with family therefor I can often find 30 minutes in an evening to move. However, the hardware is not mine, the internet connection is not mine. I am relying much on other peoples generosity to do this. It hardly inconveniences my opponent to check his games as he normally does (unless he has only games against me in which case I suggest he use the email notification option provided by the site).
Finally, you are a subscriber. Join another tournament and wait for them to timeout (or not). Generally people who have to do this don't benefit as they don't spend the extra time thinking.
Originally posted by zebano
You want to play correspondence as if you were sitting across the board from your opponent... Why not just find a club or play games on ICC, FICS, Playchess, chesslive, yahoo, pogo etc.?? Should we also not use databases since you cannot do that in over the board chess? They are different games.
Sorry, maybe I'm missing something, but that just seems a nonsensical argument. Chess is Chess, and the Timer is the Timer...WHY should it be "different" between sites...?
You do have a point that some people abuse it insofar as they use it when not on vacation to gain time.
There ya go....that's all I'm saying....and asking the question...."are they cheating when they do this?".
However, to say that
1. You are on vacation, hopping into an online cafe and moving should not be allowed is just silly.
Er....yes, it is.....you have me there...but then again, that's NOT what I'm "complaining" about...check out my current tourney matches (as at 17-Sep-07)....see how many are on vacation...yet each have moved daily...
2. Planning... A game here can be finished in under a day and a game can be finished over the course of a year. Besides that, I advance to round two or three in many tournaments. It is simply not possible to plan for all this despite what you may think. Should we also schedule when our loved ones need an emergency trip to the hospital?
Sorry (again) but this is more nonsense....the facility to "plan" a game over a year is simply not available...I can understand a game stretching to a year, but it's certainly not a "given"....also, would you care more about a chess game being timed out than a loved one in hospital?
...and would your answer be any different across a table at a Club...?
It was not my intention in any way, shape or form, to start a bun fight with you or anyone else.
I'm just wondering where the realism ended, and why we have to "accept" a situation that allows people (as you agree occurs) to abuse the Vacation facility, simply because (apparently) "it is there"...?
Zad
PS: ...cute baby...your first?....and the reason for your haitus? 🙂
Originally posted by ZadadkaWhat difference does that make? You can care about both, even if not in equal amounts.
also, would [b]you care more about a chess game being timed out than a loved one in hospital?[/b]
See Thread 71612
D
Originally posted by RagnorakSurely you must be jesting !!??
What difference does that make? You can care about both, even if not in equal amounts.
See Thread 71612
D
A chess game is more important than an hospitalized loved one.......sorry, "equally as"... ?
Seems a little harsh on your loved ones...
Originally posted by ZadadkaI don't think you understood zebano right. His arguments are fine: the difference between sites is that on the sites he mentioned, you play in realtime (OTB, so to say) and what we do here is correspondence chess. The difference is obvious. His planning argument is definitely no nonsense: games can stretch for over a year (or at least a couple of months, easily): not everyone knows exactly what they'll be doing when in a couple of months, right? In your declaring the argument nonsense you forgot about the tourney 2nd, 3rd rounds starting at unplannable times. Also, the loved-one-in-hospital argument was not meant to say that one should care more for a game of chess than for a loved one, but that you can't plan a loved one's illness any more than you can your games of chess. That was the comparison.
Originally posted by zebano
You want to play correspondence as if you were sitting across the board from your opponent... Why not just find a club or play games on ICC, FICS, Playchess, chesslive, yahoo, pogo etc.?? Should we also not use databases since you cannot do that in over the board chess? They are different games.
Sorry, maybe I'm ad
PS: ...cute baby...your first?....and the reason for your haitus? 🙂
As people stated earlier, your timebank does go back. I went on vacation when playing a hardcore grand and had to extend my vacation time on RHP because I ran out of timebank. Is this also your kind of cheating? For the rest of the year I can't use vacation time anymore, and I'll be leaving the country again (Romania, you think I'll be able to play every day? I think not). This is exactly what will happen to people 'abusing' the vacation feature: the rest of the year they won't be able to, so you can time them out then.
I think the vacation feature is working alright, correspondence chess is not about hurrying the game, if you want to do that use the blitz feature or any other website, OTB or whatever you like.
People abusing the system will always be there, I don't think changing the system every time someone abused it would improve anything: in the new system there would be more abusers. When on holiday, I occasionally moved in 'easy' games from an internet cafe. That kind of thing should stay.
Edit: took me long to write this one. Missed what was after.