Being a Nimzo Indian/Queen's Indian and Sicilian player, I have many choices against 1. c4 and 1. Nf3. However, I am still not sure what to do because I don't just want to play what easily fits with my repertoire. I want to try to play the best moves. This is why I refuse to play Nf6 against 1. c4. Nf6 tells my opponent that I consider his move equal to 1. d4 and yet, I feel that 1. c4 is a little inferior to 1. d4. Moreover, it allows him some more favorable transpositions to d4 defenses. For example: 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 e6 3. e4. e4 is the very move that I try to prevent or make undesirable in the Queen's Indian and Nimzo Indian! 1. Nf3 is also a very slippery move and it's hard for me to find a variation that won't give White advantageous transpositions. I suppose 1. Nf3 is really without much independent value and equal to e4 or d4.
Against c4, I am considering c5 or e5. From my research, e5 seems more testing and best. Is this correct?
Against Nf3, I am considering either Nf6 or c5. c5 allows transpositions to 1. e4 which might be tougher for Black than 1. d4 transpositions. However, it is unlikely that my opponents would be willing to play e4 so this pretty much guarantees a Symmetrical English as the most serious try. Nf6 is my favorite because it is an equally subtle move. It is the least committal, prevents e4 and still allows me the freedom to play both the Symmetrical English or a QID. However, to avoid being forced into a Classical Queen's Indian (with Bb7 instead of Ba6), I have to transpose into some Symmetrical English lines. 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 b6 (e6 allows improved transpositions) 3. Nc3 Bb7 4. g3 c5 5. Bg2 g6 or e6. Now, I have to consider, are these Symmetrical English lines any better than what I would have if I just started with the Symmetrical? Also, is the Symmetrical English better or worse for Black than a Queen's Indian? If it's better, than I might as well have just gone into it directly. The question is, which is objectively better for Black and which do I like more, the Symmetrical English or the Queen's Indian? Since I feel about the same for both, I am most interested in which would be considered to give Black the better game.
This is all very confusing to me and I hope you will help me. What should I do against 1. c4 and 1. Nf3? What do you do and why?
Since you play the nimzo already, why not play the 3 knights system with Bb4 against the english?
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 Bb4
One of the most popular variations against the english and similar to the nimzo.
Againt Nf3 I usually just play Nf6 and wait to see what white is up to.
Originally posted by ericmittensThe only problem is that isn't whites only way of reaching many similar setups.
Since you play the nimzo already, why not play the 3 knights system with Bb4 against the english?
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. g3 Bb4
One of the most popular variations against the english and similar to the nimzo.
Againt Nf3 I usually just play Nf6 and wait to see what white is up to.
For instance after
1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. Nc3 Bb4 white can play Nd5 which I find is good for white.
OK so picking out some of the notes from Richard Pallisers book "Beating Unusual Openings":
Nf3 for the club player can lead to KIA or Reti whilst at a higher level the idea is often to use certain 1.d4 lines while avoiding others.
Kings Indian players are well placed after 1.Nf3...Nf6, 2.c4...g6, 3.Nc3...Bg7, 4.e4...d6, 5.d4 we are into the main line but black should be prepared for 4.g3 english approach.
Grunfeld players are targeted with 1.Nf3 as after ...Nf6, 2.c4...g6, 3. Nc3...d5 White has a number of tricky independent options including 4.Q a4+, 4. cxd5...Nxd5, 5 qa4+...and others
It used to be OK for Dutch players to play 1...f5 but recently white has been doing well with the subtle 2.d3
And there are notes for Nimzo, Modern Benoni and Benko players too
Scicilain players can look at 1.Nf3...c5 (in the database this is followed by 2.c4 50% (heading into the english), 2.g3 28% and 2.e4 just ten percent)
These lines are looked at in some detail:
1.Nc3...c5, 2.b3...d6, 3.Bb2...e5, 4.e3...Nc6
1.Nc3...c5, 2.g3...Nc6, 3.Bg2...e5, 4. 0-0...g6
..and chapter eleven is devoted to 1.Nf3...d5 following the lines
a) 2.b3
b) 2.g3
c) 2.c4
...and chapter twelve covers
1.Nf3...Nf6
2. c4...e6
following
a) g3
b) Nc3
...so there's quite a bit of ground to cover
There are four chapters on 1.c4 all devoted to lines after 1....c5 the symmetrical english ( a favourite with Tal and Fisher and more interesting than the name implies) with chapter one covering white fianchettoes and plays Nf3:
1.c4...c5, 2.Nc3...Nc6, 3.g3...g6, 4.Bg2...Bg7, 5. Nf3...e5, 6. 0-0...Nge7, 7.d3...0-0, 8.a3...d6
I'm not that great of a player, but I do play the English quite a bit. I love it when people try the 3 knights defence against the English since my replies pretty much play themselves and I get a long term initiative. The reversed dragon lines and the symmetical are hardest for me to play against.
Originally posted by KaworukunSometimes, but it depends on how the white player plays.
Doesnt C4 or knight f3 turn into a queens gambit anyway? Whats the big fuss? Just plays the kings indian or dutch against them.
For instance against KID, I will play g3, Bg2 with a fianchetto setup which can be played from a 1.d4 move order but is rare.
Against the dutch, I will play c4, Nc3, d3 aiming to play e4 which is more or less impossible to do once you have committed to d4.
That said, I don't think any of us below 2000 are doing much good for ourselves wasting so much time on opening study.
Originally posted by KaworukunNo. I never play 1. c4 anyway, but I dare you to transpose my 1. Nf3 into a queens gambit 😉 1. Nf3 d5 2. c4 c6 3. g3 Nf6 4. Bg2 (of course also possible 2. ... dxc4 or 2. ... d4), for examples of how to beat the 2000+: look at LekZ's games (or even 1 or 2 of mine 😉)
Doesnt C4 or knight f3 turn into a queens gambit anyway? Whats the big fuss? Just plays the kings indian or dutch against them.