Originally posted by zeppelin x I agree that it is sexist. Are men allowed in these women leagues? If there was an all mens league would that be considered sexist?
Why do white men do most of the complaining about racism and sexism?
The institutions of western society (near eastern are even worse) favor men over women, and the dominant race over others; even the language itself confers this privilege. Yet, every effort to "level the playing field" (as President Johnson described Affirmative Action in the United States) is decried as sexist (or racist) by those who feel their unmerited privilege threatened.
Women make up a higher percentage of the top 1000 players than they do of all chess players ( but both are under 5% ). They are not at a disadvantage in their abilities. However, they do, as a group, lack the will, motivation, interest, or support to play chess as much as men. Events for girls and women are held to address a significant imbalance in the culture. What benefit is served by all male events? (Remember also, that there are far more all male chess tournaments--without them being declared so--than there are all female.)
I have no problem with women's events, given that women make up a relatively small percentage of chess players, and only Judit Polgar has been a threat to win the overall World Championship. Therefore, having Women's Championships and other female-only events helps promote the game among females, and that's fine by me.
I remember reading somewhere that men tend to visualize better in three dimensions. Better with pattern recognition, and goemetrics. Does anyone know of data to back this up? Personally I think that women have the same ability as men, but these aspects of their thought process aren't nurtured when they are young. Despite the rise of women to equal status of men, there are still certain social stigmas that need to be overcome. Some of which are blindly maintained by the women who wish to be free of them. When a person says they want equality, and then continues to segregate themselves, I would call it the height of hypocrisy.
Originally posted by Wulebgr Why do white men do most of the complaining about racism and sexism?
The institutions of western society (near eastern are even worse) favor men over women, and the dominant race over others; even the language itself confers this privilege. Yet, every effort to "level the playing field" (as President Johnson described Affirmative Action in the United Stat ...[text shortened]... r more all male chess tournaments--without them being declared so--than there are all female.)
I am all for equality amongst men and women. I just don't see why there should be an all male or woman tournament. If women really wanted to play chess in a tournament then it would be far better to declare yourself best among all competitors not just women. Maybe women just are not as attracted to chess as men are which is why there is such a low percentage of women players.
Originally posted by Samdogg I am all for equality amongst men and women. I just don't see why there should be an all male or woman tournament. If women really wanted to play chess in a tournament then it would be far better to declare yourself best among all competitors not just women. Maybe women just are not as attracted to chess as men are which is why there is such a low percentage of women players.
All women tournaments have been proposed and held as a means to reduce the number of all male tournaments.
Originally posted by Samdogg I am not trying to disagree with you but I have never heard of an all male tournament. Can you be specify an all male tournament?
Searching almost at random through the recently finished tournaments rated by the USCF, the first I found had one woman/girl (she played and lost two games in a five round event). The winner's previous event was all male: http://www.uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?200609195981-10583896
Originally posted by Wulebgr Searching almost at random through the recently finished tournaments rated by the USCF, the first I found had one woman/girl (she played and lost two games in a five round event). The winner's previous event was all male: http://www.uschess.org/msa/XtblMain.php?200609195981-10583896
Originally posted by Samdogg But is it a declared all male tournament?
No. It doesn't need to be so declared to keep it largely so.
I'm trying to make the point that all women tournaments are an effort to redress the fact that a great many tournaments are all male by default, and nearly all are male dominated (but not due to greater male abilities).
It is a form of Affirmative Action. Arguments based on simply reversing the terms male/female miss the point that the effort to redress is rooted in society as it is. If one lived in Herland (see the novel by that name by Charlotte Perkins Gilman), an all male tournament might redress a systemic problem of under-participation by men.
It is not sexism to hold all-girls/all-women events; it is an effort to offer an antidote to the systemic sexism in society that restricts women from engaging in challenging mental pursuits. We have come a long way since the days of the mad woman in the attic (see "The Yellow Wallpaper" also by Gilman), but we have yet a long way to go.
Originally posted by Wulebgr All women tournaments have been proposed and held as a means to reduce the number of all male tournaments.
How would all women tournaments reduce the number of all male tournaments? I would expect the opposite. If the choice is between playing in an all women or a regular tournament, some women will decide to play in the all women tournament. If there's no choice, they'll have to play in regular tournaments.
Originally posted by Nordlys How would all women tournaments reduce the number of all male tournaments? I would expect the opposite. If the choice is between playing in an all women or a regular tournament, some women will decide to play in the all women tournament. If there's no choice, they'll have to play in regular tournaments.
Because women's and girl's events have the potential to bring more women into chess, and thus, in time, more will play in non-segregated tournaments (hitherto the male domain).
Originally posted by Wulebgr Because women's and girl's events have the potential to bring more women into chess, and thus, in time, more will play in non-segregated tournaments (hitherto the male domain).
I can understand how chess camps or classes especially for girls could bring more women into chess, but I just don't see the need for all women tournaments.
Originally posted by Wulebgr Because women's and girl's events have the potential to bring more women into chess, and thus, in time, more will play in non-segregated tournaments (hitherto the male domain).
like I said before, I just don't believe that women are are as interested in the game as there are men. I am not saying this as in a sexist attitude but it is just simply unfair to me.
Originally posted by Nordlys I can understand how chess camps or classes especially for girls could bring more women into chess, but I just don't see the need for all women tournaments.
If these camps hold tournaments, would boys be permitted?
Women in Chess
26 Jan '07 15:54
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