A cooling system that works without electricity

Originally posted by @humy
no it isn't a lie. The only electricity used is the small amount for the pump for pumping around the water.

I rest my case.

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
I rest my case.

That tiny amount of electric used for the pump is not what causes the the actual cooling and that pump could be run on non-electric sources of energy. That's obviously what they meant by the cooling system not using electricity (no electricity used for the actual cooling element) thus it is no lie. It is a bit like saying it is a lie that a petrol car isn't an electric car because a petrol car has electric spark plugs; no lie intended by saying a petrol car isn't an electric car because, just like with this cooling system, it isn't the electricity that powers it but rather the electricity merely helps it to function.

Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_transfer
to understand the physics of (some) heat energy radiating from the ground directly to outer space without heating the atmosphere in between. So, you see, I am NOT just making this up!

And this is also from wiki;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_cooling
"...The same radiative cooling mechanism can sometimes cause frost or black ice to form on surfaces exposed to the clear night sky, even when the ambient temperature does not fall below freezing....

Cool roofs combine high optical reflectance with high infrared emissivity, thereby simultaneously reducing heat transfer from the sun and increasing heat removal through radiation. Radiative cooling thus offers immense potential for supplementary passive cooling to residential and commercial buildings.....

In India before the invention of artificial refrigeration technology, ice making by nocturnal cooling was common. The apparatus consisted of a shallow ceramic tray with a thin layer of water, placed outdoors with a clear exposure to the night sky. The bottom and sides were insulated with a thick layer of hay. On a clear night the water would lose heat by radiation upwards. Provided the air was calm and not too far above freezing, heat gain from the surrounding air by convection was low enough to freeze the water
"

is all that a lie also?

-this is the physics this OP cooling system uses to cool.

Originally posted by @humy
That tiny amount of electric used for the pump is not what causes the the actual cooling and that pump could be run on non-electric sources of energy. That's obviously what they meant by the cooling system not using electricity (no electricity used for the actual cooling element) thus it is no lie. It is a bit like saying it is a lie that a petrol car isn't an ...[text shortened]... water
"

is all that a lie also?

-this is the physics this OP cooling system uses to cool.

Was there any indication this system could cool down as much as a traditional air conditioner? That would be a real breakthrough. But if you have a room at 100 degrees F and the new tech cooled it to 90, that wouldn't be so great.

Originally posted by @humy
yes it does.
This is just common physics knowledge that heat can be transferred via radiative transfer. I am NOT just making this up! I learned this at university physics. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_transfer if you don't believe me.

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_transfer"

Posting about radiation in general? That does not make your argument valid. I am well aware that radiation is a form of heat transfer.

Originally posted by @humy
That tiny amount of electric used for the pump is not what causes the the actual cooling and that pump could be run on non-electric sources of energy. That's obviously what they meant by the cooling system not using electricity (no electricity used for the actual cooling element) thus it is no lie. It is a bit like saying it is a lie that a petrol car isn't an ...[text shortened]... water
"

is all that a lie also?

-this is the physics this OP cooling system uses to cool.

The effect is real, you are misunderstanding how it is accomplished.

Originally posted by @humy
That tiny amount of electric used for the pump is not what causes the the actual cooling and that pump could be run on non-electric sources of energy. That's obviously what they meant by the cooling system not using electricity (no electricity used for the actual cooling element) thus it is no lie. It is a bit like saying it is a lie that a petrol car isn't an ...[text shortened]... water
"

is all that a lie also?

-this is the physics this OP cooling system uses to cool.

"Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_transfer
to understand the physics of (some) heat energy radiating from the ground directly to outer space without heating the atmosphere in between. So, you see, I am NOT just making this up!"

Where "exactly" is this sentence in the link you posted? Or how "exactly" is it concluded from the mathematical formulations in this link?

"That tiny amount of electric used for the pump is not what causes the the actual cooling and that pump could be run on non-electric sources of energy. That's obviously what they meant by the cooling system not using electricity (no electricity used for the actual cooling element) thus it is no lie."

Does it cool anything without that pump?

Originally posted by @humy
That tiny amount of electric used for the pump is not what causes the the actual cooling and that pump could be run on non-electric sources of energy. That's obviously what they meant by the cooling system not using electricity (no electricity used for the actual cooling element) thus it is no lie. It is a bit like saying it is a lie that a petrol car isn't an ...[text shortened]... water
"

is all that a lie also?

-this is the physics this OP cooling system uses to cool.

And this is also from wiki;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_cooling
"...The same radiative cooling mechanism can sometimes cause frost or black ice to form on surfaces exposed to the clear night sky, even when the ambient temperature does not fall below freezing....

Cool roofs combine high optical reflectance with high infrared emissivity, thereby simultaneously reducing heat transfer from the sun and increasing heat removal through radiation. Radiative cooling thus offers immense potential for supplementary passive cooling to residential and commercial buildings.....

In India before the invention of artificial refrigeration technology, ice making by nocturnal cooling was common. The apparatus consisted of a shallow ceramic tray with a thin layer of water, placed outdoors with a clear exposure to the night sky. The bottom and sides were insulated with a thick layer of hay. On a clear night the water would lose heat by radiation upwards. Provided the air was calm and not too far above freezing, heat gain from the surrounding air by convection was low enough to freeze the water
"

From the same page:

"The effect is blunted by Earth's surrounding atmosphere, and particularly the water vapor it contains, so the apparent temperature of the sky is far warmer than outer space"

Originally posted by @joe-shmo


Where "exactly" is this sentence in the link you posted?

which "sentence" are you referring to and did I say/imply it was in the link?

Originally posted by @joe-shmo

From the same page:

"The effect is blunted by Earth's surrounding atmosphere, and particularly the water vapor it contains, so the apparent temperature of the sky is far warmer than outer space"

So what? "blunted" doesn't mean none of it is still there and you must know that because you just said "The effect is real..."

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
The effect is real, you are misunderstanding how it is accomplished.

in specifically what way? explain...

Originally posted by @humy
in specifically what way? explain...

Me: "What is the water giving its heat off to?"

humy: "-outer space."

Me: "Directly so - it does not"

humy: "yes it does."

You think the heat from the water is radiated directly to space. That is "specifically" the way you are incorrect.

The heat from the water is absorbed by mirror body; then absorbed by the atmosphere ( predominantly through convection and less so radiation); then radiated into space by the atmosphere.
The reason why the infrared heat from the water is able to be absorbed by the mirror is because the "nearly perfect" mirror is reflecting all radiation incident on its surface back into space as visible light, as opposed to its " black body" surroundings which absorb most incident radiation and emit IR. The body temperature of the mirror will be lower than the body temperature of its surroundings.

Also, I'll post it again...please answer this time.

"That tiny amount of electric used for the pump is not what causes the the actual cooling and that pump could be run on non-electric sources of energy. That's obviously what they meant by the cooling system not using electricity (no electricity used for the actual cooling element) thus it is no lie."

Does it cool anything without that pump?

Originally posted by @humy
which "sentence" are you referring to and did I say/imply it was in the link?

You imply that this information specifically resides within your link.

"heat energy radiating from the ground directly to outer space without heating the atmosphere in between"

Where "exactly" is it?

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
You imply that this information specifically resides within your link.

"heat energy radiating from the ground directly to outer space without heating the atmosphere in between"
]

no I clearly didn't imply this is in the link and please don't dishonestly take my quotes out of their context.

Lets see what I ACTUALLY said, shall we?

"
Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_transfer
to understand the physics of (some) heat energy radiating from the ground directly to outer space without heating the atmosphere in between.
"
The operative words there are "Also see ... to understand...".

Originally posted by @joe-shmo
You think the heat from the water is radiated directly to space.

-along with every atmospheric physicist, we believe, for good reason, some of the heat is radiated directly to space, yes.
It is a well known undisputed scientific fact that some, not all, heat from surfaces (water included) does radiated directly to outer space. This happens mainly when there is little cloud as cloud tends to partly block it. I have shown you the links that explain the physics.

Does it cool anything without that pump?

yes, the panel on the roof which is cooled to a lower temperature than the air above. Without the pump the resulting cold water in the panel won't go where it is needed which is in the building.