Originally posted by timebombtedThere will nothing magic about it, it isn't anything special I just want to
Interpretation of the evidence is what counts, it has to be logical and with reason, thats the only way we will get close to reality.
What logic and reason do you have to conclude life was created / designed? The answer to this is probably still the magically post we're all still waiting for......
Again, i have no problem waiting, please take your time.
cover the bases up front I have started on it, but my schedule has
just changed so I no longer have the time I typically do to use for
this site.
Kelly
2 edits
Originally posted by timebombtedBefore abiogenesis then evolution can begin, all the parts must be in
KJ - I find it very hard to decode your ramblings sometimes, if there was a question in all that then please reiterate it clearly and I will address.
the correct place.
Where did everything come from?
Going back to creation, that story has the start of all things that have
a start, science does not.
Those that attempted to describe it destroyed normal logic in their
descriptions so far.
Kelly
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayYour representation of creation is correct however, you said it best: A story. As in fiction. I have maintained there are many more stories with more imagination but mankind needs such stories so one is as good as the other I guess, all being fiction and allegory.
Before abiogenesis then evolution can begin, all the parts must be in
the correct place.
Where did everything come from?
Going back to creation, that story has the start of all things that have
a start, science does not.
Those that attempted to describe it destroyed normal logic in their
descriptions so far.
Kelly
The thing that religious folk convinced these stories are literal truth is this: They, and you, reject the regular science based ideas of creation because there is no real science in this yet, the problem is incredibly difficult, a lot more difficult than solving the Riemann's Conjecture in math and it may take another couple hundred years to put it together with any pursuasive cohesiveness, perhaps culminating in the creation of life out of the labs from just organic chemicals, stuff already known to be found in interstellar clouds, which may have seeded the earth with these pre-biotic material, like amino acids and such. So feel safe in your rejection since man is not godlike yet and you can feel safe for probably another 50 years. My guess is they will figure out how life started on earth in that time frame, mainly due to really advanced instruments and the space program digging into places like Mars and Europa and Titan and such and analyzing what they find, there are suprises in store for absolute sure.
Originally posted by KellyJaySonhouse has already provided an adequate response.
Before abiogenesis then evolution can begin, all the parts must be in
the correct place.
Where did everything come from?
Going back to creation, that story has the start of all things that have
a start, science does not.
Those that attempted to describe it destroyed normal logic in their
descriptions so far.
Kelly
However, just because science doesn't yet have all the answers, in no way does this mean your 'story' is anymore than just a story.
My initial questions referred to your opinions on first life (not first everything), from your last few posts however I can see yet again your opinion is based on faith, stories and magical beings.
1 edit
Originally posted by timebombtedYou do not think what you said was insulting, just checking? All I did
If you want to resort to insults, let me know, I have plenty for you.
was turn it around on you, and you found that insulting. You should
lighten up, if I'm not clear say so, you don't have to make it personal
while you do it.
Kelly
2 edits
Originally posted by timebombtedI was asked why I believed what I do, I was giving an answer. I agree
Sonhouse has already provided an adequate response.
However, just because science doesn't yet have all the answers, in no way does this mean your 'story' is anymore than just a story.
My initial questions referred to your opinions on first life (not first everything), from your last few posts however I can see yet again your opinion is based on faith, stories and magical beings.
it is a story, but nothing touches it as I pointed out to you. There is
not a everything from nothing story, theory, or whatever coming out of
science, where we do not have to bend or deny what we know is true
today that speaks to it, and science will not come up with anything
either, even though you assume it will, I don't think so.
Kelly
2 edits
Originally posted by timebombtedYou jumped into a conversation where we were speaking about
Sonhouse has already provided an adequate response.
However, just because science doesn't yet have all the answers, in no way does this mean your 'story' is anymore than just a story.
My initial questions referred to your opinions on first life (not first everything), from your last few posts however I can see yet again your opinion is based on faith, stories and magical beings.
everything I even warned you, that you were changing the subject.
If you wish to discuss first life I'm fine with that, we just need to
know it can happen from non-living material, what was the setting
it had to occur in and maintain, what materials were needed and
in what quantities, how did they need to bind, was there an order to
it that had to happened in to be just right? What obstacles could have
prevented it, where any of them present?
You have all of those answers?
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYes it was my misconception regarding first life vs first everything.
You jumped into a conversation where we were speaking about
everything I even warned you, that you were changing the subject.
If you wish to discuss first life I'm fine with that, we just need to
know it can happen from non-living material, what was the setting
it had to occur in and maintain, what materials were needed and
in what quantities, how did ...[text shortened]... les could have
prevented it, where any of them present?
You have all of those answers?
Kelly
No I don't claim to know all the answers, no one does, but lack of knowing in one field provides no weight to your design / creation / god argument. So I cannot see how your "nothing touches it" statement has any merit, it does not attempt to explain anything with logic or reason, just a story....... science is at least a progressive method making new finds all the time which build upon our knowledge.
I will never be so arrogant to say science has all the answers, but I am of the opinion that there are no questions that cannot be answered and there will always be more questions. Retrospectively this has been the case, the seemingly impossible gets answered as we progress....... only time will tell if this trend continues in the future.
Blindly trusting god did it, teaches us nothing.
Originally posted by timebombtedHere is a Hindu account of creation, all in all I think more creative than the Zorastrian 6 day version:
Yes it was my misconception regarding first life vs first everything.
No I don't claim to know all the answers, no one does, but lack of knowing in one field provides no weight to your design / creation / god argument. So I cannot see how your "nothing touches it" statement has any merit, it does not attempt to explain anything with logic or reason, j ...[text shortened]... ll if this trend continues in the future.
Blindly trusting god did it, teaches us nothing.
Hindu
This universe existed in the shape of darkness, unperceived, destitute of distinctive marks, unattainable by reasoning, unknowable, wholly immersed, as it were, in deep sleep.
Then the Divine Self-existent, himself indiscernible but making all this, the great elements and the rest, discernible, appeared with irresistible power, dispelling the darkness.
He who can be perceived by the internal organ alone, who is subtle, indiscernible, and eternal, who contains all created beings and is inconceivable, shone forth of his own will.
He, desiring to produce beings of many kinds from his own body, first with a thought created the waters, and placed his seed in them.
That seed became a golden egg, in brilliancy equal to the sun; in that egg he himself was born as Brahma, the progenitor of the whole world....
The Divine One resided in that egg during a whole year, then he himself by his thought divided it into two halves;
And out of those two halves he formed heaven and earth, between them the middle sphere, the eight points of the horizon, and the eternal abode of the waters.
From himself he also drew forth the mind, which is both real and unreal, likewise from the mind ego, which possesses the function of self-consciousness and is lordly.
Moreover, the great one, the soul, and all products affected by the three qualities, and, in their order, the five organs which perceive the objects of sensation.
But, joining minute particles even of those six, which possess measureless power, with particles of himself, he created all beings.