Age of the earth

Originally posted by @eladar
How does God creating the universe and the laws that govern the universe change anything when it comes to science?

What god? Which one? Please specify...

Originally posted by @fabianfnas
What god? Which one? Please specify...

Any actually. My point would apply to any worldview that includes a God or gods that created the universe and put the natural laws into place.

Originally posted by @eladar
It would not be a fake image, it would be the image of an actual real universe created consistently with the natural laws put in place by God.

No, it would clearly be fake and it would break the laws of physics. I just explain in length how so in the latter part of my last post (how would light from the same explosion of the star coming to us thousands of years apart not contradict the laws of physics? ). Did you read it? If not, please do so now. I explained it all there.

Originally posted by @humy
No, it would clearly be fake and it would break the laws of physics. I just explain in length how so in the latter part of my last post (how would light from the same explosion of the star coming to us thousands of years apart not contradict the laws of physics? ). Did you read it? If not, please do so now. I explained it all there.

Miracles break the laws of nature, that's what makes them miracles.

I can see why you'd reject miracles from your point of view.

What I don't understand is your inability to see possibilities outside your point of view.

Originally posted by @eladar
Any actually. My point would apply to any worldview that includes a God or gods that created the universe and put the natural laws into place.

No it wouldn't. It wouldn't include a god or gods creating the big bang because, for whatever personal reasons, you have decided that is against your religion. What we observe through our scientific instruments plus the known laws of physics prove the big bang happened. Therefore you cannot both agree that the known laws of physics are correct and a god created them and maintain your religion of there being NO big bang unless this god put those laws of physics there to fool us to believe the big bang happened when it didn't! This is not an assumption but logical deduction.

Originally posted by @humy
No it wouldn't. It wouldn't include a god or gods creating the big bang because, for whatever personal reasons, you have decided that is against your religion. What we observe through our scientific instruments plus the known laws of physics prove the big bang happened. Therefore you cannot both agree that the known laws of physics are correct and a god create ...[text shortened]... o believe the big bang happened when it didn't! This is not an assumption but logical deduction.

I am not saying the Big Bang could not have happened. I am not saying anything about your beliefs.

I am saying that a Big Bang not happening is still possible even if the Big Bang would explain how the universe is moving.

Originally posted by @eladar
Miracles break the laws of nature,

we have no evidence let alone proof of such miracles. What is the rational basis of your belief that there exists miracles?

Originally posted by @humy
we have no evidence let alone proof of such miracles. What is the rational basis of your belief that there exists miracles?

I am sure this is true from your point of view.

Not sure why you believe the truth of what I am saying is negated based on your unproven assumptions.

Originally posted by @eladar
I am not saying the Big Bang could not have happened.

No, that IS what you are saying. You just said;

...how long did it take for a star's light to reach the earth at the moment of creation?
The answer is instantaneous because when the star was created, everything about it came into existence including the light rays hitting earth at that moment.

I just told you how that is nonsense but the point I make here is that that assertion clearly implies you believe the big bang didn't happen. If the universe is just a few thousand years old then that obviously isn't nearly enough time for there to be a big bang at the start because the universe hadn't changed all that much in such a short time span.

I am not saying anything about your beliefs.

My "beliefs" here, unlike yours, aren't assumptive nor religious because they are just the purely rational "beliefs" in the proven facts via the evidence, nothing more. In contrast, your "beliefs" here are wildly assumptive and purely religious.

I am saying that a Big Bang not happening is still possible even if the Big Bang would explain how the universe is moving.

then what you saying is wrong. The big bang not happening completely contradicts the evidence that proves it happened. And the evidence for the big bang is NOT just "the universe is moving" but much more substantial if only you would bother to learn a bit of science.

Originally posted by @eladar
I am sure this is true from your point of view.

Not sure why you believe the truth of what I am saying is negated based on your unproven assumptions.

In other words, you have rational basis of your belief that there exists miracles because it is unproven assumption and religion.

Originally posted by @humy
you just said;

...how long did it take for a star's light to reach the earth at the moment of creation?
The answer is instantaneous because when the star was created, everything about it came into existence including the light rays hitting earth at that moment.

I just told you how that is nonsense but the point I make here is that that a ...[text shortened]... niverse is moving" but much more substantial if only you would bother to learn a bit of science.

I'll try to explain this one more time, then give up on you.

Try to pay attention.

My point is not if the big bang happened. If it actually happened or not is irrelevant to my point.

Here is my point so pay attention. The study of natural laws can neither prove nor disprove if the big bang happened. Nothing we know in science today can neither prove nor disprove that the big bang happened.


The resulting truth is that one's belief about the big bang does not determine if one believes what science tells us about the rules that govern natural laws of this universe.

Originally posted by @eladar
Miracles break the laws....

Where I come from, breaking the law gets you hard time in a federal prison. Mostly neck tattoos and criminal records, not universes.

Originally posted by @wildgrass
Where I come from, breaking the law gets you hard time in a federal prison. Mostly neck tattoos and criminal records, not universes.

Breaking the laws of nature.

Originally posted by @humy
In other words, you have rational basis of your belief that there exists miracles because it is unproven assumption and religion.

Not from the assumptions you make. There is nothing rational about any set of assumptions.

Originally posted by @eladar
Any actually. My point would apply to any worldview that includes a God or gods that created the universe and put the natural laws into place.

So now you believe in any god?
And still you believe this is science?