30 Apr 20
@sonhouse saidthe original study is to be found here:
https://news.yahoo.com/scientists-perplexed-low-rate-coronavirus-170200046.html
https://www.qeios.com/read/Z69O8A.13
and a Quote from the Abstract:
This preliminary analysis does not support the argument that current smoking is a risk factor for hospitalization for COVID-19. Instead, these consistent observations, which are further emphasized by the low prevalence of current smoking among COVID-19 patients in the US (1.3😵, raises the hypothesis that nicotine may have beneficial effects on COVID-19. This could be attributed to its immunomodulatory effects and its interaction with the renin-angiotensin system. However, other confounding factors need to be considered and the accuracy of the recorded smoking status needs to be determined.
30 Apr 20
@Ponderable
If I have it right, the problem with C19 and others of its ilk is it drives a super reaction from the immune system so it goes hyper and that is what causes the actual damage. Is that true? If so immunosuppressives might help.
01 May 20
@sonhouse saidA cytokine storm is often what kills a C19 patient: effectively the patient is killed by his or her own immune system's overzealous response to the virus. That has led me to wonder whether certain immunocompromised individuals may actually have a survival edge over healthy individuals, and whether immunosuppressants could help people overcome the virus without being overwhelmed by their own immune response.
@Ponderable
If I have it right, the problem with C19 and others of its ilk is it drives a super reaction from the immune system so it goes hyper and that is what causes the actual damage. Is that true? If so immunosuppressives might help.
But I'm guessing things are just not that simple, otherwise we'd be hearing something from a study by now. Children do have weaker immune systems than adults, and that seems to help them in the case of this disease.
01 May 20
@Soothfast
If that is the case, what about known immunosuppresives like cortisone or prednisone?
01 May 20
@soothfast saidThe observation is that fewer people who are smokers present in hospital. One factor might be that it's possible that it was in part due to smokers thinking they must be more susceptible to the virus and so were more compliant with social distancing rules, another possibility is that because of 'smoker's cough' people were encouraged to keep their distance.
A cytokine storm is often what kills a C19 patient: effectively the patient is killed by his or her own immune system's overzealous response to the virus. That has led me to wonder whether certain immunocompromised individuals may actually have a survival edge over healthy individuals, and whether immunosuppressants could help people overcome the virus without being overw ...[text shortened]... do have weaker immune systems than adults, and that seems to help them in the case of this disease.
The paper talks about nicotine having an immunomodulatory effect. But possibly what is important is that it affects ACE2 expression, increasing it. Decreased ACE2 expression seems to be what causes lung damage. This is discussed in the paper.
Another guess is that smoking means that lung tissue is already inflamed and so there's already an immune response so that the virus is mopped up more quickly. Alternatively decreased lung area and preexisting sputum production make the virus less likely to embed in actual lung tissue in the first place.
01 May 20
@eladar saidIn the paper it is expressively written that there is no knowledge about people using vaping devices, so i would expect that there is no infromation about nicotine patches.
Nicotine patch.
It would be interesting to investigate though.
01 May 20
@ponderable saidOne possible problem is that the evidence concerns existing smokers. If it's due to some sort of social effect then it has no use as a treatment. If it's due to increasing ACE2 expression then an important factor is how quickly that happens. If it's within hours or days that's fine, but if you need to be smoking 20 a day for a few months then it's difficult to see a therapeutic use given the timescale of covid-19 disease progression. As a preemptive treatment, for people as yet uninfected, it doesn't seem helpful, as it's difficult to reconcile the protective effect of nicotine with the known harms of smoking and I believe pharmaceutical nicotine has harms including MI and addictiveness.
In the paper it is expressively written that there is no knowledge about people using vaping devices, so i would expect that there is no infromation about nicotine patches.
It would be interesting to investigate though.
01 May 20
@DeepThought
Addictiveness? In the US we do not care about that, opioid use is huge. I got a prescription for one when I had my hand repaired.
01 May 20
@Eladar
You know good and well the opioid crisis was 100% caused by big pharm who said early on there was no addiction associated with oxy.
It is offensive for you to say it is the victim's fault when fake pharmacies popped up right next to fake doctors office where in a town of 10,000 30,000 oxy pills were handed out.
01 May 20
@sonhouse saidDid he say that?
@Eladar
You know good and well the opioid crisis was 100% caused by big pharm who said early on there was no addiction associated with oxy.
It is offensive for you to say it is the victim's fault when fake pharmacies popped up right next to fake doctors office where in a town of 10,000 30,000 oxy pills were handed out.
01 May 20
@eladar saidCocodamol's my favourite, if you've got dental pain it actually works. Oxycontin's great, a friend had one left over and I had a dental abscess, I spent the afternoon curled up in bed without pain and feeling a little floaty...
@sonhouse
What moron believes opium is not addictive?
We know opioid are addictive and they are still handing them out.
01 May 20
@DeepThought
I took one after the pain block wore off. It was not painful but I thought it would be better to error on the side of no pain. I found that it gave me energy and a positive feeling. My wife hated it necause I would not shut up.
The bottle was nearly full when I was done with pain meds, I mostly used Advil. Opioid in school is not a good idea.