09 Oct 08
Created by me, your new God. Everybody pissed? Good. Now, let's do some detective work instead of bickering.
Question:
Let's assume that God the Intelligent Designer designed all the living creatures of the world according to His plan. This is our model. Now, what predictions could we make about such a world using this model? That is, how would we expect living things in the world to appear, or behave, or be designed, etc..., if they were designed by God?
The answer to this question should be a prediction of what we should find, not a description of what we do find. That part comes later, after we've established what our model predicts. Note that in real science, you get to revise your hypothesis to explain all the data, so a "wrong" answer here doesn't kill the model.
Get cracking, Creationists!
09 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by FabianFnasNo, we're actually going to do some science here. We're going to see if we can raise the status of the Creationist claim to a hypothesis, with some testable predictions. If we can't, then we can't consider Creationism to be a reasonable alternative to evolution because it will be unverifiable.
Please - no religion in Science Forum!
There is a Spiritual Forum for religios topics.
10 Oct 08
Originally posted by PBE6We can even pretend the creators are us, say 1000 years from now assuming continued scientific development.
No, we're actually going to do some science here. We're going to see if we can raise the status of the Creationist claim to a hypothesis, with some testable predictions. If we can't, then we can't consider Creationism to be a reasonable alternative to evolution because it will be unverifiable.
So we found a nice clean slate planet and we want to start life anew, what would we do?
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10 Oct 08
Originally posted by PBE6We cannot know what it is that 'God', or whatever you're referring to as a creative source, has at its disposal. What tools or methods are being employed? What is not being used? How would we know?
Created by me, your new God. Everybody pissed? Good. Now, let's do some detective work instead of bickering.
Question:
Let's assume that God the Intelligent Designer designed all the living creatures of the world according to His plan. This is our model. Now, what predictions could we make about such a world using this model? That is, how would we e ...[text shortened]... the data, so a "wrong" answer here doesn't kill the model.
Get cracking, Creationists!
We can't know, so as much as you might want to not engage in describing what we find, I don't see how that's logically feasible. I think you're setting up impossible constraints on the unknowable.
10 Oct 08
Originally posted by PBE6Sorry, PBE6. I don't understand the question.
Let's assume that God the Intelligent Designer designed all the living creatures of the world according to His plan. This is our model. Now, what predictions could we make about such a world using this model? That is, how would we expect living things in the world to appear, or behave, or be designed, etc..., if they were designed by God?
The answer to th ...[text shortened]... l the data, so a "wrong" answer here doesn't kill the model.
Get cracking, Creationists!
10 Oct 08
Originally posted by PBE6In the first two postings your hypothesis is that god exists. Then it's no science. You cannot ever use scientific methods to prove god's existance. You cannot bring science into religion. Therefore this thread is about religion.
No, we're actually going to do some science here. We're going to see if we can raise the status of the Creationist claim to a hypothesis, with some testable predictions. If we can't, then we can't consider Creationism to be a reasonable alternative to evolution because it will be unverifiable.
Bring this to Spiritual Forum, dear moderators! Please...
10 Oct 08
Originally posted by sonhouseWe could, but it would be equally improbable. Besides, I'm running this show!
We can even pretend the creators are us, say 1000 years from now assuming continued scientific development.
So we found a nice clean slate planet and we want to start life anew, what would we do?
10 Oct 08
1 edit
Originally posted by BadwaterWell then, it seems that Intelligent Design can never be brought to the level of a hypothesis, because we can't know what God thinks! Exactly the point I was trying to make.
We cannot know what it is that 'God', or whatever you're referring to as a creative source, has at its disposal. What tools or methods are being employed? What is not being used? How would we know?
We can't know, so as much as you might want to not engage in describing what we find, I don't see how that's logically feasible. I think you're setting up impossible constraints on the unknowable.
Intelligent Design is not science. Case closed.
10 Oct 08
Originally posted by NemesioMy question was intended to follow the form of a Socratic dialogue, but Badwater short-circuited the process as a happy accident.
Sorry, PBE6. I don't understand the question.
But the main thrust of the question is that any hypothesis must make predictions about the world we see. Proponents of Intelligent Design miss this point every time. Their claim that God created all the creatures we know and love, including ourselves, can never be proven or disproven because Intelligent Design says nothing! I wanted to try and make the Creationists develop their model into something that makes predictions, and only after having done that compare it to what we observe in the real world. I also wanted to make sure we permitted changes to the hypothesis, because without doing so the only thing we would be discussing is a "gotcha!!" question, something I find patently unfair and infuriating more than illuminating.
10 Oct 08
Originally posted by FabianFnasSometimes you miss the mark by a country mile, Fabian. The entire point of this thread is to show why Intelligent Design isn't science, and the best way to do that is to apply the scientific method and see where Intelligent Design comes up short.
In the first two postings your hypothesis is that god exists. Then it's no science. You cannot ever use scientific methods to prove god's existance. You cannot bring science into religion. Therefore this thread is about religion.
Bring this to Spiritual Forum, dear moderators! Please...