Originally posted by scottishinnzMOST of MY creationist and ID bunch are fond of being guilty of
Well, most of your creationist and ID bunch seem to get found guilty of lying under oath, fraud, perjury, heck even one of your best and brightest (if you want to use that term) Ted Haggard was found high on crystal meth in the "company" of a male prostitute, and I don't think it was a confessional session, either.
The point is, you Christians, with ...[text shortened]... g which comes from these guys?
Now, show me the bad things us scientists are doing.[/b]
lying under oath, fraud, and perjury, wow! You are of the opinion
that is just creationist and ID people that do that, are you denying
it happens to people period? Seems to me your prejudice is
showing. Personally, when you go off and say things and imply
I said them, I think you are lying, but that is me, I’m sure you see
it another way. Your views about lying and mine I guess are more
than likely at odds too, when you say things that are not true or did
not happen they you suggest, you must give yourself a pass, because
you have a reason to say it, could be others do to, but if they are
a creationist or ID person, and one of mine, whatever that means, they
lie when they do it.
Kelly
Originally posted by scottishinnzYou need to pull your head out of your A__ and get a grip! If you
Well, most of your creationist and ID bunch seem to get found guilty of lying under oath, fraud, perjury, heck even one of your best and brightest (if you want to use that term) Ted Haggard was found high on crystal meth in the "company" of a male prostitute, and I don't think it was a confessional session, either.
The point is, you Christians, with ...[text shortened]... g which comes from these guys?
Now, show me the bad things us scientists are doing.[/b]
cannot discuss a subject without insulting my faith we are done.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI agree that people in general are not known for their honesty especially when there is something important at stake. Some scientists have been known to lie and invent when there is significant funding or their jobs at stake - and politicians are far worse.
You are of the opinion that is just creationist and ID people that do that, are you denying it happens to people period?
However, I do find it interesting (and hope you find it disturbing) that all the creationists and ID supporters I have ever met or talked to including on this site, on other web sites and in daily life, have a tendency to present as supporting evidence information that any rational person can see is at best misleading and more often than not outright lies. In addition to that there is a general tendency never to admit that it is so even when it is shown without doubt to be the case. I notice for example that despite the significant evidence presented in this thread that the 'expelled' movie contains lies, you have avoided admitting that you do recognize that fact and will go to great lengths to avoid doing so.
I have not seen a similar tendency amongst scientists, though I often think that they make unwarranted or biased conclusions from their data, there is often a readiness to accept it when they are shown to be wrong or to admit that they might be wrong when their evidence is shown to be insufficient.
Originally posted by KellyJayYou are a creationist, right?
MOST of MY creationist and ID bunch are fond of being guilty of
lying under oath, fraud, and perjury, wow! You are of the opinion
that is just creationist and ID people that do that, are you denying
it happens to people period? Seems to me your prejudice is
showing. Personally, when you go off and say things and imply
I said them, I think you are lying ...[text shortened]... ist or ID person, and [b]one of mine, whatever that means, they
lie when they do it.
Kelly[/b]
Well, it seems whenever one of the creationist camp representatives gets onto the stand they can't help but lie.
Again, show me what I have said that's wrong.
Behe claims that science has no answer to certain problems for which there are reams of documented literature - at worst an outright lie, at best naivety. I cannot believe that a sworn "expert" in the subject would be so ignorant.
Alan Bonsell and William Buckingham got a serious grilling from Judge Jones for lying under oath.
You want more??
Now, show me where the scientists in this case lied??
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Originally posted by twhiteheadPlease, I can more than likely just a go a few weeks into the past
I agree that people in general are not known for their honesty especially when there is something important at stake. Some scientists have been known to lie and invent when there is significant funding or their jobs at stake - and politicians are far worse.
However, I do find it interesting (and hope you find it disturbing) that all the creationists and be wrong or to admit that they might be wrong when their evidence is shown to be insufficient.
here at this site and show you where people have twisted my words,
and made claims I have said things I have never said. I am saying
that people lie, if you have a field where there are people in a field
it has liars in it, it isn't because they are scientists, lawyers, ID'ers,
athiests, theists, creationist, on and on! I think it sad people want to
paint all ID or all creationist, or all atheist liars due to a few. I don't
what it was those people you were refering to "lied" about, they may
not have been lying, but speaking the truth as they see it, which may
not be as you do. I know I don't see the universe the same way you
do and when I express my views, it isn't that am lying, or not being
honest it is simply me speaking from my point of view, disagreeing is
not lying.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI do not see any possible way that Ben Stein and his cronies were not being exceptionally modest with the truth, whilst misrepresenting evolution, a number of academic institutions and academics themselves.
Please, I can more than likely just a go a few weeks into the past
here at this site and show you where people have twisted my words,
and made claims I have said things I have never said. I am saying
that people lie, if you have a field where there are people in a field
it has liars in it, it isn't because they are scientists, lawyers, ID'ers,
athiests ...[text shortened]...
honest it is simply me speaking from my point of view, disagreeing is
not lying.
Kelly
Equating Naziism with evolutionary biology, for example, is fallacious and intellectually dishonest. People have known about the power of artificial selection (what Hitler was trying to acheive) for millenia.
Ben Stein and his crew undertook this deliberate misrepresentation of a position in a methodical, planned way to deliberately try and misinform the public about the true state of science.
They even lied to the scientists featured in the film, for example PZ Meyers and Richard Dawkins, in order to gain access to them for an interview.
Which part of this isn't lying???
Originally posted by KellyJayIn many cases it has been outright lies and not 'seeing the universe differently'.
I don't what it was those people you were refering to "lied" about, they may not have been lying, but speaking the truth as they see it, which may not be as you do.
I know I don't see the universe the same way you do and when I express my views, it isn't that am lying, or not being honest it is simply me speaking from my point of view, disagreeing is not lying.
Kelly
I don't believe you. You are clearly not particularly lacking in intelligence and often show some insight into what is being discussed and most noticeably you carefully avoid some questions and issues and try to push the conversation away from anything that might show your point to be false. That is clear intentional deception and also a sign that you do not in fact believe some of the claims you make.
Originally posted by scottishinnzWhat did they say about evolution you thought was a lie?
I do not see any possible way that Ben Stein and his cronies were not being exceptionally modest with the truth, whilst misrepresenting evolution, a number of academic institutions and academics themselves.
Equating Naziism with evolutionary biology, for example, is fallacious and intellectually dishonest. People have known about the power of artifi ...[text shortened]... Dawkins, in order to gain access to them for an interview.
Which part of this isn't lying???
As I pointed out to others here, what they said about what happened
and what the counter arguments were do not mean that they lied
in the movie, it means there are two sides to the topic. You are very
quick to use the word 'lie'. I'd prefer a court case instead of waring
web sites.
Kelly
Originally posted by twhiteheadWow
In many cases it has been outright lies and not 'seeing the universe differently'.
[b]I know I don't see the universe the same way you do and when I express my views, it isn't that am lying, or not being honest it is simply me speaking from my point of view, disagreeing is not lying.
Kelly
I don't believe you. You are clearly not particularly la ...[text shortened]... onal deception and also a sign that you do not in fact believe some of the claims you make.[/b]
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayNazism is the consequence of Christianity, not evolutionary theory. Just read the Old Testament sometime. God often calls for the Israelites to wipe out inferior races. Hitler was just applying the Word of the Lord.
What did they say about evolution you thought was a lie?
As I pointed out to others here, what they said about what happened
and what the counter arguments were do not mean that they lied
in the movie, it means there are two sides to the topic. You are very
quick to use the word 'lie'. I'd prefer a court case instead of waring
web sites.
Kelly
Originally posted by telerionHitler never saw himself or germans as israelites, although he saw himself as fulfilling the goals that "providence" set out for him. It's not really sure what religion, if any.
Nazism is the consequence of Christianity, not evolutionary theory. Just read the Old Testament sometime. God often calls for the Israelites to wipe out inferior races. Hitler was just applying the Word of the Lord.
The antisemitism that allowed the holocaust to happen was in part due to christianity and the beliefs that people like Martin Luther spread about Jews though.
The causes of the holocaust are pretty complex and there isn't just one. Anyone suggesting that there was a single cause shows their ignorance of the history of it.
Originally posted by telerionNazism was not the consequence of Christianity. Hitler was not even the founder of the Nazi Party, which was originally a socialist movement up until the Putsch of 1923. And God never names people inferior to my recollection- I thought he preached mercy to the conquered, rather than sending people to the gas chambers. Also, Hitler never spoke much about religion except for his anti-Jew tendencies. So really, he was just a nutter, proven by his actions during Barbarossa and Typhoon.
Nazism is the consequence of Christianity, not evolutionary theory. Just read the Old Testament sometime. God often calls for the Israelites to wipe out inferior races. Hitler was just applying the Word of the Lord.
I am not Christian, but research your topic before trying to comment in a downright rude fashion. Thank you.
Originally posted by mjolnirRead your Bible. It's plain that you've only got a hazy second-hand understanding of the Scripture.
Nazism was not the consequence of Christianity. Hitler was not even the founder of the Nazi Party, which was originally a socialist movement up until the Putsch of 1923. And God never names people inferior to my recollection- I thought he preached mercy to the conquered, rather than sending people to the gas chambers. Also, Hitler never spoke much about reli ...[text shortened]... istian, but research your topic before trying to comment in a downright rude fashion. Thank you.
Seriously, go back and read about the conquest of Canaan. I understand it's a lot of boring text so to make it easier just go through the book of Deuteronomy. You'll find numerous cases where God tells the Israelites to commit genocide against its neighbors. On one occasion in particular he even tells them not to let even the animals of their enemies live.
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If I might continue my response to KellyJay . . .
Christianity is based on a god that loves incest and pedophilia. Of course, there's Genesis where Adam, Eve, Cain, and Seth are supposed to populate the world. There's Noah's family after the Flood. Just Noah, his three sons, and their wives and kids. Consider to where God declares Lot an upright man. Lot is a guy who sleeps with his kids and sends his young virgin daughters to be gang raped!
Everybody paints a nice picture of Jesus and Christianity, but even a bit of research will show you that it is a very sinister philosophy. Should it surprise us though? Not really. Look at how many Christians there are in the world, and look at how bad people are. QED
My history with Christianity is well-known to some of the more tenured members here, including KJ. Therefore you should trust me when I tell you these heinous facts about one of the world's most popular religions.
Originally posted by KellyJayFirst, you should respond to the DELIBERATE OUTRIGHT LIES I posted to Whodey that were in the film. The part where people described how they'd been expelled, and yet hadn't.
What did they say about evolution you thought was a lie?
As I pointed out to others here, what they said about what happened
and what the counter arguments were do not mean that they lied
in the movie, it means there are two sides to the topic. You are very
quick to use the word 'lie'. I'd prefer a court case instead of waring
web sites.
Kelly