Faster than light

Originally posted by amolv06
Can you provide a source for this?

No he can't because if gravitons exist, they certainly go at c.

Originally posted by amolv06
Can you provide a source for this?

Graviton speed
Is the speed of gravitons higher than the speed of photons? I believe so.

Let's take black holes. A black hole has a so called (photonic) horizon beyond which photons can't go.

Since black holes have a photonic horizon, we can also say they have a gravitational horizon, beyond which gravitons can't go. If the gravitational horizon is smaller than the photonic horizon, there can be no photonic horizon because the photons would escape the gravitational attraction. Therefore, for a black hole to exist, its gravitational horizon must be bigger than its photonic horizon.

Two parameters influence the size of the horizon: mass and speed (of gravitons or photons). Assuming that the speed of graviton is equal with the speed of photons, we see that if the mass of gravitons is smaller than the mass of photons, gravitons would go farther away from the black hole than photons would go.

There are certain experiments with gravitons which suggest that the movement mass of gravitons is higher than the movement mass of visible photons. As such, the gravitational horizon would be smaller than the photonic horizon and black holes could not exist.

But if the speed of gravitons would be bigger than the speed of photons, the gravitational horizon would be bigger than the photonic horizon.

This makes us see that there can exist gravitational holes, objects which are so heavy that even gravitons can't go beyond the gravitational horizon of the gravitational holes

http://www.gardenerofthoughts.org/ideas/thoughts/various.htm

Originally posted by sonhouse
No he can't because if gravitons exist, they certainly go at c.

Oh really?

___________________________________________________________

The Speed of Gravity in CPH Theory



According Relativity, nothing moves faster than light, and the speed of light is about c=3x10^8 m/s. So, the speed of gravity is equal c, in Relativity. When the spin of an electron changes, the spin of other electron does change instantaneous.

It shows information moves faster than light in atomic level. We can accept nothing moves faster than light and transfer of information does not obey of physical laws. But it is not a scientific looking on nature.

How can we explain this phenomenon? We must accept that information move faster than light, but how it does?

Is there any signal other of electromagnetic waves in nature?

Surely, it is gravity.



Gravity
According TO CPH Theory, gravity is a currency among objects. For example consider the interaction between the earth and the moon:
Earth has a gravitational field. The gravitational field is formed by gravitons that are moving toward the earth and they are interacting with each other. Suppose the earth is alone and there are no interactions between earth and other bodies in universe. When gravitons reach the earth, the earth absorbs them. Then gravitons obey all forces around them. But the earth is not alone and it has interaction with other bodies. Take a look at earth and moon. There are two fields; one is around the earth and the other one is around the moon. When a graviton reaches the earth, the other one moves toward the moon and pushes the earth toward the moon. (Remember flow and ebb). Also when a graviton reaches the moon, the other one moves toward the earth and pushes the moon toward the earth. So earth (In fact every thing) is bombarded by gravitons continuously.

But what is CPH?


Definition of CPH
Suppose there is a particle with mass of m that is moving with speed Vc in an inertial frame. And Vc>c and c is the speed of light. So, its linear momentum gives mVc. It is Called CPH (Creation Particle Higgs).

Principle of CPH

CPH is a particle with constant mass m and moves with constant speed Vc.
CPH has the momentum of Inertia I. In any interaction between CPH and other particles/forces, the amount of Vc does not change, so;

gradVc=0 in all inertial frames and any space

Let's return to transfer of information in structure of atom.

Look at two electrons A and B in structure of an atom. They are replying gravitons continuously as everything in universe.

When a graviton reaches of A to B, its spin and direction transfers any all information of A to B.

So, if the spin of A changes, graviton shows it to B.

We can calculate the speed of graviton. Suppose distance d between two electrons is d=1x10^-15 m (diameter of atom)

Graviton does pass d at least time t. The least time is Planck's time T=5.39x10^-44 s.







So, the speed of graviton V gives by following relation;

V=d/T=(10^-15m)/(5.39x10^-44s)=2x10^28 m/s

So, the speed of graviton is about 10^20 times as c, or

V=10^20c

please consider that Vc>V, because graviton has spin and Vc is the speed of CPH when it has not spin, remember

gradVc=0 in all inertial frames and any space


http://cph-theory.persiangig.com/E3-gravityspeed.htm

Originally posted by amolv06
Can you provide a source for this?

How many sources do you want?

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Properties of the Pico-Graviton:
In the 1990s, Carezani set out to find the properties of this particle he dubbed the "pico-graviton". Using calculations for perihelion advance, he came up with the following numbers: the pico graviton has the mass of around 1x10-81 kilograms, and travels at around 27 times the speed of light. Another person in the SAA has claimed to find approximately the same values for the properties of the pico-graviton through completely different methods but the calculations have not be confirmed.

In short, it is a very very small particle and very fast - 27 times the speed of light! This paints a picture of pico-gravitons flying around the universe at super-light speed, and with their tiny mass and high speed, cause a phenomena called gravity.


http://www.autodynamics.org/main/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=66&MMN_position=74:70

Welcome to the 21st Century folks.

Originally posted by uzless
Oh really?

___________________________________________________________

The Speed of Gravity in CPH Theory



According Relativity, nothing moves faster than light, and the speed of light is about c=3x10^8 m/s. So, the speed of gravity is equal c, in Relativity. When the spin of an electron changes, the spin of other electron does change instantaneo ...[text shortened]... n all inertial frames and any space


http://cph-theory.persiangig.com/E3-gravityspeed.htm

So they start by supposing that there exists a particle that moves at a constant speed that is greater than c to conclude that there exists a particle that moves at a speed that is greater than c.

My God!, the logic in it just amazes me!

Originally posted by uzless
Welcome to the 21st Century folks.

Do you want a small list of errors and mistakes in those "articles"?

Let me rephrase: Can you provide any scientific sources backing your claim?

Autodynamics has been wholly rejected by the scientific community, as it defies what we know. Talk of being in the 21st century, this was rejected in the mid-20th century. Even on the most basic level, its predictions contradict common experience. This is pseudoscience at best.

Never heard of CPH theory before, but my guess is its on the same level. Maybe not though. If not, could you provide anything from a peer-reviewed scientific journal?

And seriously -- the first link? Some guys random thoughts? I wonder if you are intending on being sarcastic.

Originally posted by amolv06
I wonder if you are intending on being sarcastic.

I honestly hope he is.

I may be an idiot - I'm still struggling with idea of a graviton being subject to gravity.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I may be an idiot - I'm still struggling with idea of a graviton being subject to gravity.

It could come from graviton self-interaction or graviton-graviton interaction. The result would be some kind of a very strong divergence, though.

Those articles are riddled with errors and mistakes and they certainly have nothing scientific in them.

If this crap is 21th century Physics, I'm out!

Originally posted by adam warlock
It could come from graviton self-interaction or graviton-graviton interaction. The result would be some kind of a very strong divergence, though.

Those articles are riddled with errors and mistakes and they ceratinly have nothing scientific in them.

If this crap is 21th century Physics, I'm out!

Wouldn't that kinda mess with orbital dynamics though?

PS me too.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Wouldn't that kinda mess with orbital dynamics though?

PS me too.

Yes. The divergences would mess with pretty much everything.

Ps: The same things happens in normal field theory, and that's why I'm not a bi fan of normal field theory...

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I may be an idiot - I'm still struggling with idea of a graviton being subject to gravity.

It's the other way round, just like Electromagnetic forces are mediated by a particle, the photon, if that theory of gravity is correct, the force of gravity is mediated by the particle called the graviton. So far just a theory, no gravitons have ever been detected and don't hold your breath on that one either. We are still trying to just detect gravitational radiation with no success after about 50 years of trying with various schemes, the latest design to be a series of satellites way away from Earth, like maybe at L1 or L2, something like that for orbital stability with not much need for propulsion but several probes all with laser beams connecting each one but a thousand Km apart to try to catch gravitational radiation. After you successfully do that THEN you can tackle gravitons. Like I said, don't hold your breath. But according to the theory, gravity doesn't control gravitons it's the other way round.

If you don't understand the way the particles mediate forces, think of a couple of dudes on skateboards or ice skates on a frozen pond, they have a bunch of rocks that they throw at each other, each throwing and catching rocks. Well you can see there would be a force given to the skateboard or ice skates, moving them apart. The same thing happens to photons, if you have a flashlight in each guy's hand and the beam hits the opposite guy, the photons striking the dudes will attempt to move them apart the same way because they impart momentum. Same thing with strong forces, weak forces, electro-weak and maybe gravity, these particles get swapped around giving the effect of making a force, which acts according to it's properties, like the strong force holding quarks together on EXTREMELY small distances apart, pooping out just past the distance of protons and such in the nucleus of atoms.

Originally posted by amolv06
Let me rephrase: Can you provide any scientific sources backing your claim?



And seriously -- the first link? Some guys random thoughts? I wonder if you are intending on being sarcastic.

Oh you want scientific sources? Sorry, fresh out of those.

To be fair though, the graviton is theoretical right now. Virtually impossible to design an experiment to test their existence.

I think what is important to understand though is not necessarily that the graviton travels fast than light, but rather that the information carried by gravitons may travel faster than light.