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  1. Standard member menace71
    Can't win a game of
    13 Apr '13 07:18
    Why do Galaxies in the Young Universe Appear so Mature?





    Manny
  2. Standard member Kepler
    Demon Duck
    13 Apr '13 21:47
    Originally posted by menace71
    Why do Galaxies in the Young Universe Appear so Mature?





    Manny
    How do you know they are mature? They might be scruffy, hoodie wearing young hooligans in need of a job and a good talking to.
  3. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    14 Apr '13 14:09
    Originally posted by menace71
    Why do Galaxies in the Young Universe Appear so Mature?





    Manny
    Because the Creator made them mature in the beginning.
  4. 14 Apr '13 16:43
    Originally posted by menace71
    Why do Galaxies in the Young Universe Appear so Mature?





    Manny
    Give us a reference so we know what you are talking about. The only information I have on the topic is the opposite, ie that the Hubble deep field shows a clear difference in the maturity of younger galaxies. (I saw it in a youtube video about hubble)
  5. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    15 Apr '13 01:08
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Give us a reference so we know what you are talking about. The only information I have on the topic is the opposite, ie that the Hubble deep field shows a clear difference in the maturity of younger galaxies. (I saw it in a youtube video about hubble)
    I am not arguing against the Youtube video you saw. However, saying that there is a clear difference in the maturity of younger galaxies does not mean that the younger galaxies were not mature also. That only suggests that some galaxies seem more mature than others, which leads to the conclusions as to which galaxies may have been created first.
  6. 15 Apr '13 05:17
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I am not arguing against the Youtube video you saw. However, saying that there is a clear difference in the maturity of younger galaxies does not mean that the younger galaxies were not mature also. That only suggests that some galaxies seem more mature than others, which leads to the conclusions as to which galaxies may have been created first.
    In your cosmology, galaxies cannot possibly exist (at least not the ones we see) because of the speed of light. But I realise you don't know even basic math so you can't understand why that is.
    You shouldn't even be discussing astronomy, because according to you, astronomers must necessarily be wrong about just about everything.
  7. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    15 Apr '13 14:50
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    In your cosmology, galaxies cannot possibly exist (at least not the ones we see) because of the speed of light. But I realise you don't know even basic math so you can't understand why that is.
    You shouldn't even be discussing astronomy, because according to you, astronomers must necessarily be wrong about just about everything.
    I don't expect astronomers to know everything, because they are still learning and there is a lot of things to learn. However, if more of them were to read the Holy Bible and take it seriously, they would not be coming up with these ages of billions of years. They would understand that the Creator of the universe created mature and complete galaxies very quickly and that there is no new stars or galaxies being created today. They would also realized that the speed of light has no effect on how fast the Creator made the galaxies, because the light was a product of the Creator also.
  8. 15 Apr '13 16:08
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I don't expect astronomers to know everything, because they are still learning and there is a lot of things to learn. However, if more of them were to read the Holy Bible and take it seriously, they would not be coming up with these ages of billions of years. They would understand that the Creator of the universe created mature and complete galaxies very q ...[text shortened]... on how fast the Creator made the galaxies, because the light was a product of the Creator also.
    Why do you say stars are not being created today? Does it say that in the Bible?
    There are only three possibilities with regards to the speed of light:
    1. Either you are wrong about the age of the universe and it is billions of years old.
    2. Astronomers are totally and utterly incorrect about the distances involved, sizes involved and if they are wrong about those they are wrong about just about everything.
    3. Most stars that we think we see are actually illusions of an imaginary past that never existed.

    I know you don't actually understand the very basic logic that leads to the above conclusion, but nevertheless those are the only possibilities.
  9. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    15 Apr '13 17:19
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I don't expect astronomers to know everything, because they are still learning and there is a lot of things to learn. However, if more of them were to read the Holy Bible and take it seriously, they would not be coming up with these ages of billions of years. They would understand that the Creator of the universe created mature and complete galaxies very q ...[text shortened]... on how fast the Creator made the galaxies, because the light was a product of the Creator also.
    Do you think the speed of light is what we say it is? Like 186,242 miles per second or so? Do you believe it takes light 4 hours to reach us from Pluto? That Pluto is about 4 billion miles away?

    How far do you think it is to the nearest star? Like Alpha Centauri?
  10. Standard member forkedknight
    Defend the Universe
    15 Apr '13 22:16 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Why do you say stars are not being created today? Does it say that in the Bible?
    There are only three possibilities with regards to the speed of light:

    ...

    3. Most stars that we think we see are actually illusions of an imaginary past that never existed.

    ... basic logic that leads to the above conclusion, but nevertheless those are the only possibilities.
    I've actually heard people argue this, and it sounds like this is basically what RJHinds is suggesting. The light we see from a galaxy didn't actually come from that galaxy, rather it was "created" at the same time that the universe was created.

    Seems like our "creator" went through an awful lot of work specifically to obfuscate the truth and deceive us.
  11. 16 Apr '13 05:24
    Originally posted by forkedknight
    I've actually heard people argue this, and it sounds like this is basically what RJHinds is suggesting. The light we see from a galaxy didn't actually come from that galaxy, rather it was "created" at the same time that the universe was created.

    Seems like our "creator" went through an awful lot of work specifically to obfuscate the truth and deceive us.
    Some creationists 'suggest it' but don't like the consequences, so they immediately backtrack.
    Its very simple, when we see a supernova that is millions of light years away, then the star it came from and the supernova itself could not have existed in a YEC universe. Therefore God went to the trouble of creating an imaginary history of stars exploding galaxies rotating etc. In fact he made the imaginary history extremely convincing going to the trouble of creating billions of billions of imaginary stars each with a history as long as recorded history (several thousand years). He made the imaginary history so perfect that astronomers can deduce all sorts of things including the mass of stars the chemical composition of stars etc. Its almost like he wanted us to believe those stars actually exist. In fact he did it so well that RJ actually believes stars exist, but cant quite explain how we can see them because he has a book telling him its impossible.
  12. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    16 Apr '13 12:59
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Some creationists 'suggest it' but don't like the consequences, so they immediately backtrack.
    Its very simple, when we see a supernova that is millions of light years away, then the star it came from and the supernova itself could not have existed in a YEC universe. Therefore God went to the trouble of creating an imaginary history of stars exploding ga ...[text shortened]... but cant quite explain how we can see them because he has a book telling him its impossible.
    I have a book that tells me all things are possible with the Creator, however, the Creator decides what things are true and false about the universe, not you. Anything imaginary about the universe is due to you and your friends deceived minds, because of your willingness to remain ignorant of the revealed truth and your desire to believe the lies.
  13. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    16 Apr '13 13:43
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I have a book that tells me all things are possible with the Creator, however, the Creator decides what things are true and false about the universe, not you. Anything imaginary about the universe is due to you and your friends deceived minds, because of your willingness to remain ignorant of the revealed truth and your desire to believe the lies.
    What book is that?
  14. Standard member Soothfast
    0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,
    16 Apr '13 15:13
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What book is that?
    The Silmarillion.
  15. 16 Apr '13 16:09 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I have a book that tells me all things are possible with the Creator, however, the Creator decides what things are true and false about the universe, not you. Anything imaginary about the universe is due to you and your friends deceived minds, because of your willingness to remain ignorant of the revealed truth and your desire to believe the lies.
    So lets hear it. Do you think the stars are balls of hydrogen and helium undergoing a nuclear reaction just like the sun? The Bible does not give you an answer, but astronomers do, but you cannot base your answer on the deceived minds of astronomers, so do you have any idea what stars may be, or are they just little candles in the sky as far as you are concerned?
    I see you mentioned galaxies earlier in the thread. The Bible says nothing of galaxies. So you should believe galaxies exist, unless you were listening to the deceived minds of astronomers perhaps?