Originally posted by sonhouse
In other words, lets go back to 14 mpg cars and no emission controls, who needs all that crap anyway, besides, I can't accelerate to 60 in 4 seconds like I used to, all that emission control is just a bunch of Gore crap.

Now you have gone off the deep end. Emission controls do not reduce CO2. I think it is interesting how desperation leads you to make yourself look foolish. Are you going to change the subject to rubber next? How much do you intend to digress?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Now you have gone off the deep end. Emission controls do not reduce CO2. I think it is interesting how desperation leads you to make yourself look foolish. Are you going to change the subject to rubber next? How much do you intend to digress?

So why aren't you selling hydrogen cars? They have zero CO2. If I was as fervent as you about one issue that's what I would do.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So why aren't you selling hydrogen cars? They have zero CO2. If I was as fervent as you about one issue that's what I would do.

They are too expensive.
A hydrogen fuel infrastructure does not exist.
The hydrogen would come from fossil fuels and only if the CO2 is sequestered would it reduce CO2 emissions and that would be even more expensive.
Who is manufacturing hydrogen powered cars anyway? I doubt they are beyond the prototype phase.

Anymore dumb ideas?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
They are too expensive.
A hydrogen fuel infrastructure does not exist.
The hydrogen would come from fossil fuels and only if the CO2 is sequestered would it reduce CO2 emissions and that would be even more expensive.
Who is manufacturing hydrogen powered cars anyway? I doubt they are beyond the prototype phase.

Anymore dumb ideas?

Well, Toyota seems to be getting in on the act:

http://www.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html?srchid=sem|google|FCV|BrandCategory_FCV|Hydrogen_General|FCV+Copy+Refresh+4.22|Mirai_MLP

As to infrastructure, it is similar to gasoline, liquids pumped from tanks. H2 needs to be a bit on the cold side to be liquid but insulation is up to the task. You just have to use pumps rated for near absolute zero and plenty of good insulation on the piping to the car but the rest of it would be more or less like a gasoline pump.

Also, a lot of fundamental work is going on to make the production of H2 a lot more efficient.

This is one such effort, not shown as a breakthrough but an example of engineering work on the H2 generation problem.

http://www.gizmag.com/fukai-hydrogen-extraction-process/16674/

And this:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wene.150/abstract

The US energy department talks about H2:

http://energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/hydrogen-storage-current-technology

BTW, I am not touting H2 personally, just pointing out there is a lot of developmental work going on in that field.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well, Toyota seems to be getting in on the act:

http://www.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html?srchid=sem|google|FCV|BrandCategory_FCV|Hydrogen_General|FCV+Copy+Refresh+4.22|Mirai_MLP

As to infrastructure, it is similar to gasoline, liquids pumped from tanks. H2 needs to be a bit on the cold side to be liquid but insulation is up to the task. You just have to u ...[text shortened]... ng H2 personally, just pointing out there is a lot of developmental work going on in that field.

Much as I believe that hydrogen is a useful and viable fuel under certain circumstances.

I think that TESLA is on the right track as far as car's are concerned, batteries are currently
more economically and technologically viable as well as safer than hydrogen.

That said, Toyota [among others] strongly disagrees and has already made production
hydrogen cars as you point out, and it is perfectly possible to produce hydrogen without
CO2 commissions.

Meaning that metal brain is as wrong, ignorant, and stupid as ever.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Well, Toyota seems to be getting in on the act:

http://www.toyota.com/mirai/fcv.html?srchid=sem|google|FCV|BrandCategory_FCV|Hydrogen_General|FCV+Copy+Refresh+4.22|Mirai_MLP

As to infrastructure, it is similar to gasoline, liquids pumped from tanks. H2 needs to be a bit on the cold side to be liquid but insulation is up to the task. You just have to u ...[text shortened]... ng H2 personally, just pointing out there is a lot of developmental work going on in that field.

Way too expensive just like I said.

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/toyotas-new-hydrogen-powered-car-asks-high-price-mediocrity/

No, We’re Not Headed for a Mini–Ice Age
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/07/14/global_cooling_no_were_not_headed_for_a_mini_ice_age.html

Are we headed for a new ice age? [no]
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2011/06/17/are_we_headed_for_a_new_ice_age.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw_top

Regional climate impacts of a possible future grand solar minimum
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150623/ncomms8535/full/ncomms8535.html

Discussion
Numerous studies have identified links between past climate and solar variability42, 43. During the Maunder Minimum (1645-1715), very few sunspots were seen despite regular observations44. If the past relationships between TSI and ultraviolet irradiance and sunspots are the same as are observed for modern solar variability, then a decline in both TSI and ultraviolet for this period can be assumed. The Maunder Minimum coincided with more severe winters in the UK and continental Europe32 and many reconstructions45, 46 suggest atmospheric conditions were broadly comparable with the regional effects on European atmospheric circulation found here. Some modelling studies13, 47 also support the idea that similar regional cooling and circulation changes occurred during this period. On longer timescales, cosmogenic isotopes provide a proxy for TSI variations and only indirect meteorological information is available, nevertheless linkages can be made. For example, lake sediments have been analysed to demonstrate that a grand minimum of solar activity, the Homeric Minimum (~2,750–2,550 years before present), affected climate conditions through western Europe through altered regional circulation consistent with the negative phase of the NAO48. While these paleoclimatic studies appear largely consistent with our model result that weak solar ultraviolet irradiance can have a significant impact on European winter circulation through ‘top-down’ dynamical forcing, detailed modelling and attribution for these events is beyond the scope of this paper. We note that, to date, a variety of strengths of model response for past events have been obtained13, 47, 49, which could, in part, be related to uncertainties in solar forcing and to the efficiency of the ‘top-down’ mechanism in different models14.

We note that there are some uncertainties in our model response to solar forcing. The peak-to-trough variability in global mean temperature for the 11-year solar cycle is ~0.06 °C but observational estimates suggest this may be too small. For example, a signal of ~0.1 °C was obtained using a multivariate analysis with up-to-date estimates of natural (including volcanic aerosols) and anthropogenic forcing50. In general, climate models appear to underestimate this variability5. The modelled Atlantic atmospheric circulation response may also be larger if, as has recently been suggested, the ocean feedback is underestimated in the model35.

The changes in TSI that are applied in our experiments are representative of current scientific understanding31 and are smaller than those reported in earlier IPCC reports. The ultraviolet changes are designed to bracket the current uncertainty in spectral irradiance at these wavelengths, but we note that EXPT-B is likely to be at the high end of any estimate of ultraviolet change and the appreciable changes in climate that we find should therefore be viewed as a high estimate in this respect. This research highlights the need for accurate and long-term measurements of spectral solar irradiance to reduce current uncertainties.

In the solar scenario presented here, there is a gradual descent to Maunder Minimum-like conditions, which are then maintained for a period of 50 years until the end of the experiment. A modelling study which includes representation of the end of a solar minimum7 indicates that global mean temperatures approach the reference model climatology within a few years of a return to the reference solar forcing. Although timescales may depend on the exact details of the forcing scenario and model, we would expect a reversal of the climate impacts described in our experiment following the end of the event.

In other words, IF it is true that a solar minimum reduces average global temperatures and IF a solar minimum does occur
then the changes to world temperature would be about 0.1C or less. The main impacts would be in increase in harsh/cold/extreme
WINTERS in northern Europe and northern USA and those effects would disappear within a few years of solar conditions returning to
normal. As global warming already way exceeds 0.1C and is forecast to be possibly containable under 2C but predicted to
go much higher in the current worse than business as usual emissions scenario we are currently experiencing, this effect will not
and cannot compensate, even temporarily, for man made global warming and climate change.

Indeed, when coupled with climate change this may wall make matters worse, in increasing frequency of extreme cold events in
northern winters on top of the other effects of climate change due to global warming.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Much as I believe that hydrogen is a useful and viable fuel under certain circumstances.

I think that TESLA is on the right track as far as car's are concerned, batteries are currently
more economically and technologically viable as well as safer than hydrogen.

That said, Toyota [among others] strongly disagrees and has already made production
...[text shortened]... ithout
CO2 commissions.

Meaning that metal brain is as wrong, ignorant, and stupid as ever.

"Meaning that metal brain is as wrong, ignorant, and stupid as ever."

Your unprovoked insults apply to you as always.

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/toyotas-new-hydrogen-powered-car-asks-high-price-mediocrity/🙄

Originally posted by Metal Brain
"Meaning that metal brain is as wrong, ignorant, and stupid as ever."

Your unprovoked insults apply to you as always.

http://www.wired.com/2014/09/toyotas-new-hydrogen-powered-car-asks-high-price-mediocrity/🙄

I think that TESLA is on the right track as far as car's are concerned, batteries are currently
more economically and technologically viable as well as safer than hydrogen.

Learn to read.

Originally posted by googlefudge
No, We’re Not Headed for a Mini–Ice Age
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2015/07/14/global_cooling_no_were_not_headed_for_a_mini_ice_age.html

Are we headed for a new ice age? [no]
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2011/06/17/are_we_headed_for_a_new_ice_age.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw_top

Regional climate impacts of a possible future gr ...[text shortened]... vents in
northern winters on top of the other effects of climate change due to global warming.

Another alarmist challenges something that contradicts his lifes work....big surprise.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/30/grasping-for-pause-ible-deniability-on-climate-change/

Originally posted by googlefudge

I think that TESLA is on the right track as far as car's are concerned, batteries are currently
more economically and technologically viable as well as safer than hydrogen.

Learn to read.

I already pointed out the flaws of electric car batteries to humy. Find it and read it.....assuming you can read.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140331-electric-cars-biggest-threat

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Another alarmist challenges something that contradicts his lifes work....big surprise.

http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/30/grasping-for-pause-ible-deniability-on-climate-change/

I quoted an article from NATURE you cretin.

THE premier science journal.

Do you have any comprehension of how hard it is to get published in NATURE??
What their Peer review is like?

And you post yet another right wing puff piece.

Moron.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I quoted an article from NATURE you cretin.

THE premier science journal.

Do you have any comprehension of how hard it is to get published in NATURE??
What their Peer review is like?

And you post yet another right wing puff piece.

Moron.

..and phil plait is a left winger pushing his puff piece. Try again moron!

I tried your nature link. I saw nothing on it. Probably another site that requires a login that you already did. Don't expect me to jump through needless hoops just to view it......moron!

Originally posted by Metal Brain
..and phil plait is a left winger pushing his puff piece. Try again moron!

I tried your nature link. I saw nothing on it. Probably another site that requires a login that you already did. Don't expect me to jump through needless hoops just to view it......moron!

No, the Nature article is free to view on the web in it's entirety.

I don't know what web browser you are using, or what plugins you utilise, but it's unlikely
that your setup is more secure than mine and I can read it fine.

I am not logged in to that site, and don't need to be. You don't need any scripts active to be able
to read it. So I don't know what your problem is, probably a poorly setup web browser.

However, the point is that this free to view NATURE article both exists and completely contradicts
your opinion whether you read it or not.

Given that you are a lost cause to mindless stupidity and conspiracy nuttery I don't care that you are
an ignorant moron. Although I am getting thoroughly fed up with you posting the same stupid c*** in
every thread on this topic. Anyone else who is actually interested can read the actual science and
learn just how wrong and ignorant you are.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I already pointed out the flaws of electric car batteries to humy. Find it and read it.....assuming you can read.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140331-electric-cars-biggest-threat

There is nothing in that article that even hints that Electric Vehicles are untenable or unworkable.
Or says anything I didn't already know.
Do you even read the things you link to?

http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-life.html