Originally posted by twhitehead
I nearly fell off my chair laughing! The US leading the way? What a joke! The US has always been the last when it comes to such things and probably always will be.
We don't need to worry about the rest of the world following the US when the best we can hope for is that the US will (eventually) follow the rest of the world.

From the wiki on renewable energy in the US -

In 2009, the U.S. was the world's largest producer of electricity from geothermal, solar and wind power and it trailed only China in the total production of renewable energy.

It seems they're not too shabby.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Yet you implied earlier in the thread that we should not even try to do no-brainer type stuff because we are too busy with the high unemployment.
Or is this whole conversation because you feel guilty about using your aircon?

[b]I still haven't heard any great scientific inventions I might find at the Home Depot that will save the planet and cost less ...[text shortened]... rick in the cistern for a flush toilet and save water. You can probably get the brick for free.

That's a good point about the brick. I shouldn't have sounded so flippant about the "no-brainer" stuff--of course we should do those, IF they don't have a high cost of inconvenience level attached to them. The brick, for example, is no cost and onlyu slightly inconvenient.
The mercury in the lighting doesn't bother me; sounds like SA has a good thing going there. Home Depot is a metaphor. I could have easily used WalMart, Kohl's, etc. You know what I meant---if something helps the environmenbt can fit in a grocery basket and costs less than 10 bucks, I'm all for it. If it's something I have to "get installed" and get a licensed contractor (solar panels, super-effective insulation) that MIGHT get me a break on my taxes (of which I don't pay anyway--I'm below the poverty line, so that's not much of an incentive), then I pass.

Originally posted by sonhouse


All you have to do is look at the destruction being reaped in the US alone, mile wide tornadoes, firestorms never seen in such savagery before and such.

I don't believe big tornadoes, big hurricanes, big fires, etc., are the result of ANYthing man does or doesn't do to the environment. Neither do I believe they are a sign of the apocalypse 🙂

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
If it's something I have to "get installed" and get a licensed contractor (solar panels, super-effective insulation) that MIGHT get me a break on my taxes (of which I don't pay anyway--I'm below the poverty line, so that's not much of an incentive), then I pass.

It may cost a lot to install, yet save you money in the long run.
And of course I always have a good laugh about what 'the poverty line' means in different countries. The fact that you have somewhere to live, have an air-conditioner, internet access etc would make you part of the rich elite where I come from.

But your initial comments in this thread had nothing to do with what you as an individual can afford. They were about what the government or society can do.
You mentioned problems in the Middle east, national debt, Medicare, bridges etc.
My point is that the biggest things we can do about global warming are done as a society and often have to do with government policy. For example encouraging energy efficiency in everything from buildings to lighting to cars. Also important is encouraging renewable energy.
These policies will help the economy in the long run. They will also reduce dependency on the middle east and thereby partially solve one of your concerns (troubles in the middle east largely caused by the politics of oil).

Originally posted by twhitehead
It may cost a lot to install, yet save you money in the long run.

That's a gamble which people who don't earn enough to pay taxes just can't afford to take in the short run. Food on the table tomorrow trumps a tax benefit in twenty years' time, hands down. That's a problem with quite a lot of savings schemes, energy or otherwise.

Richard

Originally posted by Proper Knob
From the wiki on renewable energy in the US -

In 2009, the U.S. was the world's largest producer of electricity from geothermal, solar and wind power and it trailed only China in the total production of renewable energy.

It seems they're not too shabby.

Is that because they're leading the way, or merely because those two together use 80% of all the world's energy in the first place? 2% of 80% beats 5% of 20%, after all. They'd be less shabby if they stopped (ab)using so much energy in the first place.
Walk instead of drive those two block if you're going to get a pack of fags, for example. Now there's a saver most Europeans would've thought of, and most USAnians would not. And I'll bet you the price of a Prius that it saves more than using a Prius, too (if only because that Priapus(oops)'s battery has to be chargedfrom somewhere).

Richard

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
That's a gamble which people who don't earn enough to pay taxes just can't afford to take in the short run. Food on the table tomorrow trumps a tax benefit in twenty years' time, hands down. That's a problem with quite a lot of savings schemes, energy or otherwise.

Richard

People who cant afford to pay taxes are probably not the ones who most need to save energy. But then again, I could be misunderstanding the US tax system.
PinkFloyd for example is quite happy paying for air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter and is not at all concerned about the costs of that. Clearly comfort comes before cost for him.
If he invested in some insulation for his house it would probably pay off for him.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
I don't believe big tornadoes, big hurricanes, big fires, etc., are the result of ANYthing man does or doesn't do to the environment. Neither do I believe they are a sign of the apocalypse 🙂

That is exactly the thinking in millions and millions of Americans that adds to the problems and most of those non-thinkers are christians who believe the Earth is 6000 years old and want to force creationism to be taught along side evolution in a science class, as if creationism was not faith based but fact.

It is hiding your head in the sand which will bury us unless a majority of us get off our duffs and bite the bullet and reverse the climate trend.

It needs reversing even if mankind didn't cause it. Mankind, however, DID cause the present global warming, it is already causing mass extinctions that will come back to bite us in the asss in terms of food chain. If the bottom of the chain goes, our turn to go will also come. But of course you can just run your air conditioner at 60 in the summer and heater at 80 in the winter till the crunch comes. You are betting you will live out a long life and it will be your kids or grandkids that have to deal with it, at which time it will probably be too late and those grandkids will be reviling you and your kind.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That is exactly the thinking in millions and millions of Americans that adds to the problems and most of those non-thinkers are christians who believe the Earth is 6000 years old and want to force creationism to be taught along side evolution in a science class, as if creationism was not faith based but fact.

It is hiding your head in the sand which wil ...[text shortened]... which time it will probably be too late and those grandkids will be reviling you and your kind.

Religion is the main problem here that we have to overcome.

We believe that we are here to control the planet and all the species, because that is why God put us here. So we go about controlling and manipulating the land and the species without any regard to their welfare. The cost to other inhabitants of this planet are of no concern, as long as we get our three meals a day and plot of land to call our own, and of course we are forgiven for any offense if we attend mass and put $ in the offering plate.

Too much of our behavior is controlled by religious views, this will have to change before we can modify our behavior as co-inhabitants of this planet.

The decline in religiously controlled behavior has already started in europe with an increase in secularization. Europeans will be at the forefront of any change that takes place.

Originally posted by Shallow Blue
Is that because they're leading the way, or merely because those two together use 80% of all the world's energy in the first place? 2% of 80% beats 5% of 20%, after all. They'd be less shabby if they stopped (ab)using so much energy in the first place.

Zambia's electricity is entirely generated from hydroelectric power.

Originally posted by mlprior
Religion is the main problem here that we have to overcome.

No, selfishness is.

We believe that we are here to control the planet and all the species, because that is why God put us here.

People who believe that haven't read the Bible properly. We're here to manage the planet, not to exploit it. I agree that humans often have difficulty accepting the difference between those two, but it exists nonetheless.

Too much of our behavior is controlled by religious views, this will have to change before we can modify our behavior as co-inhabitants of this planet.

Nonsense.

Richard