New 'cure' for homosexuality?:

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Speaking out of experience or your ass?

My best guess, which is the same place you're speaking from... unless you claim to have data on this issue. If you do, I'd like to see it.

Originally posted by sh76
Even among kids, "gay" is a synonym for "bad" or "loser" and that's pretty much everywhere.

Here is the root of the problem. Children are not evil by themselves. Someone have tought them that homosexuality is bad. Their parents? Their teachers? Their church? Or the society? Hardly themselves.

To remedy this misinformation we must educate people that every one is as much worth as teh other, regardless of their sexual preferences.
But how do we do that? I say from school.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Here is the root of the problem. Children are not evil by themselves. Someone have tought them that homosexuality is bad. Their parents? Their teachers? Their church? Or the society? Hardly themselves.

To remedy this misinformation we must educate people that every one is as much worth as teh other, regardless of their sexual preferences.
But how do we do that? I say from school.

Yes, but there's something innate about the discomfiture with homosexuality. You can teach children to overcome it; but you can't teach it out of existence.

Originally posted by sh76
Yes, but there's something innate about the discomfiture with homosexuality. You can teach children to overcome it; but you can't teach it out of existence.

Children doesn't hate homosexuals if they are not tought it is wrong.

Do you say that homophobia is a genetic disorder? (If I understood your chosing of the 'innate' word correctly?)

I have no data, but I'd guess probably most of them.

Same

They both would be great; but my guess is that most homosexuals would prefer the former.

Even if all forms of homophobia were purged from official society so that no gay person were ever discriminated against, straight people just don't feel very comfortable about the topic of homosexuality. Straight people tend to look at gay people with a little disdain or contempt. Even if they've overcome it to the point that they're totally accepting, that doesn't change the initial reaction and the initial discomfort.

Even among kids, "gay" is a synonym for "bad" or "loser" and that's pretty much everywhere.

Some gay people may have adjusted well to the point that they're as happy as they can be, but if you don't think most gay people would trade in their homosexuality for an equally strong attraction to women, you're almost certainly wrong.

Yes, but there's something innate about the discomfiture with homosexuality. You can teach children to overcome it; but you can't teach it out of existence.

Seriously! Are you for real?! Are you really for real?!

Well, if you ever get past your insecurities about homosexuals you'd learn that you have your head so far up your a$$ that it is coming out of your neck again.

The idiocy keeps on raging I guess...

Originally posted by adam warlock

I have no data, but I'd guess probably most of them.

Same

They both would be great; but my guess is that most homosexuals would prefer the former.

[quote]Even if all forms of homophobia were purged from official society so that no gay person were ever discriminated against, straight people just don't feel very comfortable about t ...[text shortened]... it is coming out of your neck again.

The idiocy keeps on raging I guess...

Oh my. Somebody didn't get a good breakfast.

I have no insecurities on that front. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks of me or my sexuality. I'm merely stating what appears to me to be fact.

You, on the other hand, appear to betray enormous insecurity with your visceral, emotional reaction.

Originally posted by sh76
I have no insecurities on that front.

straight people just don't feel very comfortable about the topic of homosexuality. Straight people tend to look at gay people with a little disdain or contempt. Even if they've overcome it to the point that they're totally accepting, that doesn't change the initial reaction and the initial discomfort.

Looks like mighty insecure to me.

Just say all of that out loud in a room of people that you don't know.
Just go telling gay people that it appears to be fact that most of them would want not to be gay and to be attracted to women...

Do you still equate child molestation with homosexuality, by the way?

Originally posted by adam warlock

straight people just don't feel very comfortable about the topic of homosexuality. Straight people tend to look at gay people with a little disdain or contempt. Even if they've overcome it to the point that they're totally accepting, that doesn't change the initial reaction and the initial discomfort.

Looks like mighty insecure to me.
...[text shortened]... racted to women...

Do you still equate child molestation with homosexuality, by the way?

It's an observation; nothing to do with me. I've overcome the tendency already.

Just go telling gay people that it appears to be fact that most of them would want not to be gay and to be attracted to women...

What does whether it's true or not have to do with whether it's a smart and nice thing to say? If I think a woman is ugly, does that mean I should tell her so? You don't think that most gay people would flick a switch and be equally attracted to women instead if they could? You somehow think that this assertion is homophobic or evil or something?

I don't get what you're being so sensitive about here. So I think that most gay people would be straight if they could magically change their desires. Big deal. What's so offensive about that?

Do you still equate child molestation with homosexuality, by the way?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you could go find the thread you're referring to, because I sure don't remember.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Children doesn't hate homosexuals if they are not tought it is wrong.

Do you say that homophobia is a genetic disorder? (If I understood your chosing of the 'innate' word correctly?)

Hating homosexuals is not the same thing as looking at same sex sex disdainfully.

People are sensitive about their sexual capabilities, proclivities and prowess. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's evolutionary. It's not a matter of logic. Why else do men brag about their sexual conquests and prowess? Is it something that's logical to be proud of?

This has nothing to do with a disorder and nothing to do with homophobia. If someone has a foot fetish or gets off on staring at fingernails or any of the millions of fetishes that exist out there, do they brag about it or do they keep it quiet for fear of being looked at strangely and disdainfully?

Originally posted by sh76
It's an observation; nothing to do with me. I've overcome the tendency already.

[b]Just go telling gay people that it appears to be fact that most of them would want not to be gay and to be attracted to women...

What does whether it's true or not have to do with whether it's a smart and nice thing to say? If I think a woman is ugly, does that mean I s ...[text shortened]... aybe you could go find the thread you're referring to, because I sure don't remember.[/b]

So I think that most gay people would be straight if they could magically change their desires. Big deal. What's so offensive about that?

There's nothing offensive about that. And that's exactly why you'd go and say to the face of gay men. Right? Because you know people wouldn't get offended by it.

You somehow think that this assertion is homophobic or evil or something?

It is ignorant, horrible and homophobic.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you could go find the thread you're referring to, because I sure don't remember

I will. But answer this question: do you still think that male child molesters molest young boys because they're homosexual?

Originally posted by adam warlock

So I think that most gay people would be straight if they could magically change their desires. Big deal. What's so offensive about that?

There's nothing offensive about that. And that's exactly why you'd go and say to the face of gay men. Right? Because you know people wouldn't get offended by it.

[quote]You somehow think that this a you still think that male child molesters molest young boys because they're homosexual?

It's sad that nobody can have a civilized discussion about issued involving homosexuality because reactionaries like you will immediately go bananas and throw around homophobia accusations like they're skittles.

I will concede that there are people out there who are as immature about this as you are and so would be offended by my assertion and that it therefore, for a peace loving guy like me, may not be the smartest thing to assert to a random group of people. However, this, of course, makes not the slightest difference in terms of whether it's true.

I assert that, based on my best guess and based on my perceptions and my observations of how life on Earth among human beings is conducted, that most gay men would flick a switch if they could and become straight to avoid the stigma associated with homosexuality, as it exists among people. Not only do I believe this to be so, I do not believe it to even be controversial. This has nothing to do with homophobia. I have nothing against homosexuals, homosexuality or homosexual activity. Live and let live. I couldn't care less what people do in their bedrooms.

do you still think that male child molesters molest young boys because they're homosexual?

Gee, I don't know. I guess with some people perhaps. Maybe with others gender is irrelevant. I don't really know (and neither do you, incidentally). Most of all, however, that question and its answer is utterly irrelevant and completely devoid of practical ramifications.

Originally posted by sh76
My best guess, which is the same place you're speaking from... unless you claim to have data on this issue. If you do, I'd like to see it.

I thought so.

The best 'data' I've got is experience. Apart from one gay woman who, for religious reasons, was sorry to be gay and make an intellectual decision to marry a minister and have his children, the gay people of my acquaintance are not hung up about their sexuality at all, so the idea of them wishing to 'flick the switch' is frankly ludicrous. It probably helps to live in a gay-friendly city. Do you live in a gay-friendly place?

Originally posted by sh76
Hating homosexuals is not the same thing as looking at same sex sex disdainfully.

People are sensitive about their sexual capabilities, proclivities and prowess. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's evolutionary. It's not a matter of logic. Why else do men brag about their sexual conquests and prowess? Is it something that's logical to be proud of?

This has noth ...[text shortened]... ag about it or do they keep it quiet for fear of being looked at strangely and disdainfully?

When I see two people in love, I don't see them having sex. I just see the love and romance between them. What they do in their own private bedroom is not of my concern.

And that doesn't matter what preference they have. It's of no difference. What people do out of my eyes I don't have to know about.

That's the difference with hetero and homo. When people see two men being in love, they think about the sex they have, not the love and romance. Because the love and romance is exactly the same. Their bedroom activities is their own business, not ours.

When I see a boy and a girl, do I try to analize their bedroom activities? Who's on top? Do they do it in the dark? Do they use handcuffs, vibrator, oils? Do they [censored]? Of course not.

So why are people so afraid of what they do and not do? Why do we respond so differently when we see two boys hand in hand, or two girls hand in hand? I don't get it.

So people start to hate them. People develope phobias. And those who say that they don't have anything against 'it', but think about the children, think about what god will think, what is written in the scripture, etc.

Give every one their right to express their love, as long it doesn't hurt others. That's my motto.

And try to understand that the hate against them hurts them more than anything else. We have a lot of people here at RHP who demand respect for their pecularities, but doesn't give respect for other pecularities.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
When I see two people in love, I don't see them having sex. I just see the love and romance between them. What they do in their own private bedroom is not of my concern.

And that doesn't matter what preference they have. It's of no difference. What people do out of my eyes I don't have to know about.

That's the difference with hetero and homo. When ...[text shortened]... nd respect for their pecularities, but doesn't give respect for other pecularities.

That's all fine and good (and I tend to agree with you in general), but that has little bearing on the issue at hand. In fact, you're helping to make my point.

That's the difference with hetero and homo. When people see two men being in love, they think about the sex they have, not the love and romance. Because the love and romance is exactly the same. Their bedroom activities is their own business, not ours.

Exactly. And wouldn't you agree that this phenomenon is NOT limited to observers who are homophobic? And, if so, would you understand now why homosexuals would tend to feel some level of discomfort with the way people look at them?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I thought so.

The best 'data' I've got is experience. Apart from one gay woman who, for religious reasons, was sorry to be gay and make an intellectual decision to marry a minister and have his children, the gay people of my acquaintance are not hung up about their sexuality at all, so the idea of them wishing to 'flick the switch' is frankly ludicrous. It probably helps to live in a gay-friendly city. Do you live in a gay-friendly place?

I live in New York (not the city, but close enough). It's plenty gay-friendly.

Neither of us knows what goes on in a person's mind, but did you ever discuss with them the awkwardness they might have faced when they were younger and at other various stages in their lives and whether they would have liked to have avoided those tribulations?