Organically Grown Fruits and Vegetables

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
that you are not personally aware is not an argument, the article cited contradicts the claim and offers a reason why drinking moderate amounts of wine may even reduce the risk of cancer.

that you are not personally aware is not an argument,

Wrong! It is part of an argument for what I should rationally assume to be the case. I am aware of good evidence that wine is more often than not bad for health and I am not aware of any evidence to the contrary. Obviously, for as long as I am personally not aware of such evidence to the contrary, if I am to be rational, my default assumption must be that wine is generally bad for health else I would be irrational.
So far you have shown me no real evidence to the contrary. That is not to say such evidence to the contrary doesn't exist, only that I must assume it probably doesn't exists until if or when I am made aware of it. If such real credible evidence already exists, it seems to me a bit strange that it hasn't been widely published or at least someone hasn't shown me a link to it to prove me wrong (wrong in my assumption, not my rationality ) so that I should surely have seen it by now. But, if that where to ever happen, I will instantly and without hesitation change my belief accordingly.

the article cited contradicts the claim

Not with statistical evidence, just hearsay and their reasoning given is contradicted by the actual real life evidence and thus is proven flawed. I have already shown links that inform us that the actual statistics on this in the real world (as opposed to any theory ) clearly shows that moderate drinking of alcohol increases cancer risk -why ignore the actual physical evidence while just blindly believing the hearsay and their debunked reasoning? Are you just cherry picking whichever claims and web links you want to believe? I just pick and believe the ones purely based on the actual real evidence in the real world even when they tell me something I wish was false (and I can give quite a few examples of that ) . I wish wine had some miracle health benefit (why wouldn't I!? ) and I can see why you would want such a thing to be true but the evidence to date that I am aware of indicates the opposite.

Originally posted by humy
In generally trace non-hazardous amounts, yes; just like I would admit the alcohol, which is both potentially and far more likely to be more harmful to health, are in wine that is made with grapes regardless of whether they are organically grown grapes.

Moderate drinking of alcohol could very well increase your lifespan according to this link. I must admit that even I am a bit skeptical to that claim, but the benefits to heart health and other health benefits listed could very well outweigh any increased cancer risks. For example, if you die from heart disease what good is avoiding wine because you have a fear of cancer? My father did not die of cancer and because non-hodgkin's lymphoma is not known to be hereditary I have reason to think my risk of cancer is lower than heart disease. Your assertion that moderate consumption of red wine does more harm than good is just your opinion and I disagree and have the opposite opinion.

http://greatist.com/health/alcoholic-drinks-benefits

Originally posted by twhitehead
So it is likely to be fattening.
You really should think before you post.

There is no evidence that consuming red wine is fattening. I once read a Readers Digest article that listed foods in a diet that was shown to reduce weight and red wine was on that list.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
There is no evidence that consuming red wine is fattening. I once read a Readers Digest article that listed foods in a diet that was shown to reduce weight and red wine was on that list.

There is no evidence that consuming red wine is fattening.

He didn't imply there was in particular. You are really failing to follow the conversation. He was merely pointing out inconsistencies in Robbie's reasoning by demonstrating how his claim could lead to a (this ) possibly false conclusion that would also could be inconsistent with his previous implied health claims.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Moderate drinking of alcohol could very well increase your lifespan according to this link. I must admit that even I am a bit skeptical to that claim, but the benefits to heart health and other health benefits listed could very well outweigh any increased cancer risks. For example, if you die from heart disease what good is avoiding wine because you have ...[text shortened]... disagree and have the opposite opinion.

http://greatist.com/health/alcoholic-drinks-benefits

Moderate drinking of alcohol could very well increase your lifespan according to this link.

-and to many other links not based on the actual statistic evidence. I have already given links that prove via the actual statistic evidence the opposite conclusion which you just ignored.
I should also point out that the link you gave is NOT from a scientists but merely an editorial director and is NOT based on a specific scientific study while my links ARE based on specific scientific studies.
The scientific proof is there; you just refuse to except it.
Why choose to ignore those links and selectively only take notice of those links that give the conclusion you want? How do you rationalize that?

Originally posted by humy

Moderate drinking of alcohol could very well increase your lifespan according to this link.

-and to many other links not based on the actual statistic evidence. I have already given links that prove via the actual statistic evidence the opposite conclusion which you just ignored.
I should also point out that the link you gave is NOT fro ...[text shortened]... only take notice of those links that give the conclusion you want? How do you rationalize that?

"I have already given links that prove via the actual statistic evidence the opposite conclusion which you just ignored."

I am open minded. Can you provide me with that link?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
"I have already given links that prove via the actual statistic evidence the opposite conclusion which you just ignored."

I am open minded. Can you provide me with that link?

here is yet another link:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/alcohol

The picture gained from the statistics appears to be a very complex one with alcohol increasing the risk of some types of cancers while having little or no effect on the risk of other cancers and there is also a very strong genetic influence i.e. it partly depends on your genes in a significant way and then there is the effect of tobacco that, when combined with alcohol, magnifies the risk because they interact.
But, one thing is clear from the statistics (and not just from this link but ALL proper up-to-date scientific links on this that I have ever seen ) ; with all else being equal, there is a clear overall net increase in your chances of getting cancer from even moderate alcohol consumption. This is just a statistical fact. I have yet to see a single proper up-to-date scientific link that flawlessly contradicts these statistics by showing statistics to the contrary, only hearsay and unproven theory.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
There is no evidence that consuming red wine is fattening.

You think there is no evidence that consuming food with calories is fattening?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
You think there is no evidence that consuming food with calories is fattening?

Perhaps they don't understand that ALL food with calories (and most food contains calories ) is fattening if your overall dietary calorie intake is too high else it is not fattening.
If you are gaining too much weight, everything you eat that has calories contributes to that weight gain and therefore is fattening.
If you are not gaining weight and are not over weight, nothing you eat is fattening, not even any pure saturated fat you eat.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
You think there is no evidence that consuming food with calories is fattening?

This is my source of information.

http://www.rd.com/slideshows/13-fat-releasing-foods-to-lose-weight-fast/#slideshow=slide8

Originally posted by Metal Brain
This is my source of information.

http://www.rd.com/slideshows/13-fat-releasing-foods-to-lose-weight-fast/#slideshow=slide8

This is a garbage source of into. It says "Many studies show that a small glass of wine a day is good for your health" but then fails to mention all such studies without exception were small scale and/or flawed and all have been debunked by the few proper scientific studies that show it is a myth.

OK, here is a link that contradicts that link of yours:

http://www.healthfitnessexperts.com/health-benefits-resveratrol/

so, why ignore this link while only taking notice of your link?

And have you read the last link I gave you? You said you are willing to be open minded so:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/alcohol

Originally posted by Metal Brain
This is my source of information.

http://www.rd.com/slideshows/13-fat-releasing-foods-to-lose-weight-fast/#slideshow=slide8

Regardless of your "source of information", don't you realize that wine contains calories, and if your total calorie intake is too high you will become fatter?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Regardless of your "source of information", don't you realize that wine contains calories, and if your total calorie intake is too high you will become fatter?

It does not necessarily follow. Foods that contain calories, but cause diarrhea for example may cause you to loose weight. I have heard of studies that showed that milk causes fats to not get absorbed by the body - although I believe that it wasn't clear whether or not the overall effect was weight loss.

Originally posted by twhitehead
It does not necessarily follow. Foods that contain calories, but cause diarrhea for example may cause you to loose weight. I have heard of studies that showed that milk causes fats to not get absorbed by the body - although I believe that it wasn't clear whether or not the overall effect was weight loss.

Yes, but that probably doesn't apply to wine so that you loose weight by drinking it; unless you drink so much that you puke.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Regardless of your "source of information", don't you realize that wine contains calories, and if your total calorie intake is too high you will become fatter?

Yes. In larger amounts that would be true, but I think they are talking about a glass or two of wine. It is not like wine is the only caloric intake. Wine is just part of the diet. You need to consider that.