1. Cosmos
    Joined
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    12 Nov '18 18:581 edit
    The correct theory of everything must not include time. TIME is a human invention and not "real" in our universe. Please tell all the physicists and mathematicians to eliminate time and then they can get the theory of everything written up. The Wheeler-DeWitt equation has already been very close to what I mean..it solved the Hamiltonian Constraint..
  2. SubscriberPonderable
    chemist
    Linkenheim
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    13 Nov '18 12:57
    @ogb said
    The correct theory of everything must not include time. TIME is a human invention and not "real" in our universe. Please tell all the physicists and mathematicians to eliminate time and then they can get the theory of everything written up. The Wheeler-DeWitt equation has already been very close to what I mean..it solved the Hamiltonian Constraint..
    So do things happen one after the other or not?
    If there is no time, how do we understand the phenomenon of oscillation?
  3. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    13 Nov '18 15:35
    @ponderable said
    So do things happen one after the other or not?
    If there is no time, how do we understand the phenomenon of oscillation?
    Picky picky😉
  4. Cosmos
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    13 Nov '18 16:25
    @Ponderable
    once again people are confusing an "arrow of time" concept.. ALL time is present at once..past, present, future exists simultaneously
  5. Standard memberwolfgang59
    howling mad
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    14 Nov '18 02:24
    @ogb said
    @Ponderable
    once again people are confusing an "arrow of time" concept.. ALL time is present at once..past, present, future exists simultaneously
    Doesn't that make statistical predictions at the quantum level redundant?
    If the future already exists then isn't it deterministic?
  6. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 04:21
    @ogb said
    @Ponderable
    once again people are confusing an "arrow of time" concept.. ALL time is present at once..past, present, future exists simultaneously
    Have you ever sat in the exact same place as someone else at a different time? If there was not time you would occupy the same space simultaneously as other moving objects like people or pets.

    I think what you are talking about is some sort of extra dimensional observation of space-time (the universe) we cannot possibly have. Like a deity.
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    14 Nov '18 04:24
    @wolfgang59 said
    Doesn't that make statistical predictions at the quantum level redundant?
    If the future already exists then isn't it deterministic?
    It would have to be. We are not allowed to see the future though. The uncertainty principle shows that.
  8. Subscribermoonbus
    Uber-Nerd
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    14 Nov '18 06:265 edits
    @ponderable said
    So do things happen one after the other or not?
    If there is no time, how do we understand the phenomenon of oscillation?
    "Time" has more than one meaning, easily and often confused. "Time" in the metaphysical sense is the framework within which "tenses" occur. "Tenses" are what we commonly refer to as "past," "present," and "future," which correspond to physical processes which have beginnings, middles, and ends, befores and afters, oscillations, and so on.

    Time in the metaphysical sense can be thought of as being like the rules of chess; they set up a certain structure wherein "moves" happen; but it is a howler to think that the rules of chess are a move in the game. They are not; they stand at a different logical level. The rules of the game are meta-game, not moves within the game. So too, time in the metaphysical sense: it is a structure wherein "happenings" occur but is not itself one of the happenings. "Time" in this sense is timeless -- that is, without past or present or future or oscillation or before or after. Just as the rules of chess are neither pawns nor kings nor any other piece in the game.

    To expand the metaphor: space corresponds to the chess board, again a structure or framework whereon the moves (as defined by the rules) are made.

    To say that time is a human construct is not to say that it is not real. Humans are real, therefore what we construct is also real. Time is not a physical object in the universe, that is so; but lots of other things too are real without being physical objects.
  9. Germany
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    14 Nov '18 07:34
    @metal-brain said
    It would have to be. We are not allowed to see the future though. The uncertainty principle shows that.
    The uncertainty principle has nothing to do with determinism. Certain simple quantum systems are completely deterministic, yet the uncertainty principle still holds.
  10. Joined
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    14 Nov '18 18:071 edit
    @ogb said
    @Ponderable
    ALL time is present at once..past, present, future exists simultaneously
    That assertion is self-contradictory.
  11. Subscriberlemondrop
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    14 Nov '18 19:20
    @ogb said
    @Ponderable
    once again people are confusing an "arrow of time" concept.. ALL time is present at once..past, present, future exists simultaneously
    are you telling me that building a time machine is a waste of my time?
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    14 Nov '18 22:15
    @kazetnagorra said
    The uncertainty principle has nothing to do with determinism. Certain simple quantum systems are completely deterministic, yet the uncertainty principle still holds.
    I didn't say the uncertainty principle had anything to do with determinism. What makes you think that I did?
  13. Germany
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    15 Nov '18 18:43
    @metal-brain said
    I didn't say the uncertainty principle had anything to do with determinism. What makes you think that I did?
    The statement "We are not allowed to see the future though. The uncertainty principle shows that." is incorrect.
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    16 Nov '18 02:35
    @kazetnagorra said
    The statement "We are not allowed to see the future though. The uncertainty principle shows that." is incorrect.
    A photon does not experience the passage of time, right?
  15. Standard memberwolfgang59
    howling mad
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    16 Nov '18 02:51
    @metal-brain said
    It would have to be. We are not allowed to see the future though. The uncertainty principle shows that.
    I don't think Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle involves the future.

    It just states that one cannot know both the
    position and velocity of a particle at any moment.
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