Forum Bans

Originally posted by johnyg
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/10/166901345/maine-prostitution-scandal-makes-locals-anxious

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/15/78-people-arrested-prostitution-florida_n_2479005.html

Not like I'm suggesting they post photos... but.. in that second link.. none of those are public figures yet I still see their names...

In any case it was just an examp ...[text shortened]... urely make a list of ppl who were banned from the site, and or who were banned from the forum..

You'd have to measure that against commercial success.
This site would lose because it does not have the funding
to defend legal challenges.

Newspapers are usually big powerful organizations who are
very commercially successful. Sales equals money equals power.
You will find that they lose some cases and the fines are large.
But the powerful newspapers are able to absorb such losses due to
enormous revenue they generate in sales. They print an apology
and pay out money but that is nothing compared to the commercial
success of their product.

People are curious by nature and want to read about other people's
misfortune. They don't care that the newspaper broke a law.

Originally posted by johnyg
I'm curious then.. If local newspapers can print lists (with real names) of people who were caught with prostitutes(in areas where that is illegal, what makes RHP so special that it can't have a list of shame too? Also, how is it a violation of privacy to have a list of what wrongs people have done? Do the crime pay the time, transparency. Not to mention perh ...[text shortened]... is amend the TOS to include the fact that this list would be generated.. poof no problem...

An RHP ban is not a criminal conviction, nor is it a public order offence that limits one's 'activities' ( whatever, or wherever, they may be ), in the UK at least... this is a private site that can do as it pleases, ban who it wishes and not HAVE to give reason, yet must give consideration to be 'respectful' of the law and privacy, and return any money paid for subscriptions. 'Privacy' is big big money these days, even the paparazzi are pursued through the courts on occasion...
Chess.com still 'names and shames' though, Eric ( site owner ) has one mighty list that appears to be updated by the minute lol...however, he occasionally backs down when challenged by the previous 'owner' of one of his banned accounts. It's only a couple of years ago that Eric very publicly closed down the account of the 'alleged' WGM Jelena Dembo. In fact though, she didn't dispute that it was herself playing there, she merely disputed his claim of 'account closed, cheating \ engine user'...I can't remember now what rate this Woman Grand Master attained there, and one of her arguments was based upon the fact that 'given time and a definite ability' it's indeed possible for a player of her no doubt talent to match an engines 'score and move sequences'...Eric was certain an engine was utilised in her case, he even named the engine...but then one day all the threats, and counter threats, just disappeared in a cloud of smoke and mirrors. Dembo's account 'mysteriously' disappeared ( even if it did have the 'banned' comment attached )...there is not even a hint of Dembo's existence there now. What we do know is that she threatened to sue, 'loss of potential earnings due to unwarranted allegations'...Eric tried, he insisted he was right, but he somewhat inevitably thought his 'proof' might not stand up to close scrutiny. It wasn't worth the risk attached, if you have the money to fight all the apparent proof, AND an ability to at least 'partially match' the workings of the said engine, it might well be wise to stay in business and make some kind of 'private apology' to the individual concerned. I've never seen a public apology over this affair, in fact the 'chess community', certainly on the internet, was once FULL of all the goings on over 'Dembo v chess.com'...it's like it never happened now, but it certainly did !!
Moral of the tale, ban if you wish, but it's perhaps wise not to publish the reason if you don;t wish to fight any claim, and most certainly not the names even if you know them...give the banned account their money back so they cannot pursue you in the first instance...there's no point in 'exposing oneself' further when they just want you OUTTA HERE 😀

Originally posted by RevRSleeker
An RHP ban is not a criminal conviction, nor is it a public order offence that limits one's 'activities' ( whatever, or wherever, they may be ), in the UK at least... this is a private site that can do as it pleases, ban who it wishes and not HAVE to give reason, yet must give consideration to be 'respectful' of the law and privacy, and return any money ...[text shortened]... ' further when they just want you OUTTA HERE 😀

The world we live in today... Thank you, that example of Jelena Dembo does provide a good reason to not have a list...

Personally I think the list should exist, at least for forum bans. This might make it easier for the moderation team to keep track of repeat offenders and increase their ban time accordingly.

It also occurs to me that for the average user being listed on a ban list wouldn't lead to court, so perhaps maybe for GM level players, or even 2000 lvl players they could exempt from the list or leave the reason out and just say John doe was banned.

Originally posted by johnyg
The world we live in today... Thank you, that example of Jelena Dembo does provide a good reason to not have a list...

Personally I think the list should exist, at least for forum bans. This might make it easier for the moderation team to keep track of repeat offenders and increase their ban time accordingly.

It also occurs to me that for the average ayers they could exempt from the list or leave the reason out and just say John doe was banned.

Despite the reasons I have outlined to you,
and the reasons outlined to you by RevRSleeker
you still don't seem to get it which would indicate to me
that you are the sort of person who likes to talk and
not listen.

You still insist that there should be a list despite
the problems associated with such a list and you
insist that you should still be able to post
despite being banned.

It doesn't surprise me that you got banned and I
know that you were not the only one. It seems
that you are unrepentant and still blame others
for your misfortune.

Originally posted by RevRSleeker
An RHP ban is not a criminal conviction, nor is it a public order offence that limits one's 'activities' ( whatever, or wherever, they may be ), in the UK at least... this is a private site that can do as it pleases, ban who it wishes and not HAVE to give reason, yet must give consideration to be 'respectful' of the law and privacy, and return any money ...[text shortened]... ' further when they just want you OUTTA HERE 😀

I myself became the subject of a private apology.

I received three PRIVATE apologies from one Moderator.

The details were I was on the clan forum and as usual
they were all arguing and there was a lot of abuse being
thrown around.

The conversation was centred around unbalanced challenges
and cheating. The conversation became very heated and I decided
it was time for me to go elsewhere to seek intelligent discourse.

Just then in came a Moderator and he said he was going to shut the
thread down and some people would be receiving a ban for cheating.

He quoted my post as he typed and my post had nothing to do with
any arguments or cheating. I asked for an apology but he just shut
the thread down and that was that.

He messaged me privately and said that he was sorry quoting me
as he had no quarrel with me. I said I want an apology on the
public forum where he took my name in vain. He refused and apologised
privately twice more.

I complained to the administration but they failed to address the issue
and simply said that if I wished they would return my subscription.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
Despite the reasons I have outlined to you,
and the reasons outlined to you by RevRSleeker
you still don't seem to get it which would indicate to me
that you are the sort of person who likes to talk and
not listen.

You still insist that there should be a list despite
the problems associated with such a list and you
insist that you should s ...[text shortened]... he only one. It seems
that you are unrepentant and still blame others
for your misfortune.

Actually I've always been a good listener.

Insist.... no.. I'm only offering a suggestion for the site, you can feel free to "argue" why my suggestion is bad, doesn't mean I have to agree with you and stop suggesting does it?

Thank god it didn't surprise you that I got banned, wouldn't want to give you a fright...

For the last two times I was banned, you are correct I'm not repentant, as I don't believe I did anything wrong in either case. Who exactly did I blame for anything in this thread?

It surprises me you haven't been banned more often yourself...

Originally posted by johnyg
Actually I've always been a good listener.

Insist.... no.. I'm only offering a suggestion for the site, you can feel free to "argue" why my suggestion is bad, doesn't mean I have to agree with you and stop suggesting does it?

Thank god it didn't surprise you that I got banned, wouldn't want to give you a fright...

For the last two times I was banned, ...[text shortened]... hing in this thread?

It surprises me you haven't been banned more often yourself...

I joined this site Oct 31 2012.

I have complied with all of it's terms and conditions.

I do not use chess engines and I do not have any other
identity here other than the one I am using.

Anyone I ever spoke to has found me to be polite, courteous and
sporting.

Unlike you I have never been involved in any unpleasantness and
have never given the administration or anyone else any cause
to have me banned or penalized.

I would wager that before long you will receive another ban.

You are the type of person who is full of themselves and care nothing
for other people. When you don't get your way or if others don't
see things your way you whine and complain and argue and become
abusive.

One has only to look at your postings to know that what I say is true.

You are not alone unfortunately, there are quite a few here like you.

I suppose us good guys have to take whatever life throws at us.

But we don't have to like it.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
I joined this site Oct 31 2012.

I have complied with all of it's terms and conditions.

I do not use chess engines and I do not have any other
identity here other than the one I am using.

Anyone I ever spoke to has found me to be polite, courteous and
sporting.

Unlike you I have never been involved in any unpleasantness and
have never ...[text shortened]... ppose us good guys have to take whatever life throws at us.

But we don't have to like it.

Well said my friend. Couldn't have worded it better myself. Cheers!

Originally posted by radioactive69
Well said my friend. Couldn't have worded it better myself. Cheers!

If you'd tried it would have started with "well" and referred to "yous at least once. I'll wager you have been pretty close to a lengthy ban yourself. I still can't understand why you weren't banned for calling me a "twat".... A n offensive obscenity no matter which way you look at it. Your prolonged references to my genitalia have also very offensive but ignored by the mods despite alerts.

Forum moderation is difficult but will have no credibility until there is consistency. Banning someone for calling another an "idiot" seems very silly doesn't it. Johny and I both know that bans are more likely to flow from observing that the emporer has no clothes than any actual violation of the TOS.

Well done John! You deserve our admiration for bringing this issue to a head. The Rev is right in one respect. This shortcoming is not a matter for criminal law at all, it is a civil matter at best. Legal textbooks are full of civil matters involving members of clubs initiating proceedings against their private clubs oversuch issues, but who could be bothered over such an ultimately trivialthing?
Any damages awarded would hardly be worth the trouble, particularly when there are so many other sites around, albeit not as good as this one.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
I myself became the subject of a private apology.

I received three PRIVATE apologies from one Moderator.

The details were I was on the clan forum and as usual
they were all arguing and there was a lot of abuse being
thrown around.

The conversation was centred around unbalanced challenges
and cheating. The conversation became very heated ...[text shortened]... failed to address the issue
and simply said that if I wished they would return my subscription.

I once received the same heavy handed menacing response to challenging the actions of a moderator whose post was itself was a clear violation of the TOS.

If mods don't observe the TOS and use common courtesy, why is there no avenue of complaint that does not end in threats and abuse ?This idea should, once more to site ideas forum, even at the risk of further suspension.

Challenging the standard of a moderator's behaviour isn't a lot different from arguing with the policeman who's just arrested you. It won't achieve anything and could make you the subject of an additional penalty.

The discussion should centre on the banning itself - the nature of the offence, the degree of severity of the offence, the size of the penalty, the loading for continued offending.

Some forums should be given more latitude than others in areas that don't really count. The Clans forum is what I'm thinking of here - goading is officially permitted so some minor name-calling should be tolerated. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

The TOS isn't a good basis for listing offences, it's way too broad. We need a tight list of offences.

There are occasional complaints about moderator behaviour. The moderators' group have access to more information than the rest of us and know which moderator may be bring the group into disrepute. We should consider asking the administration if we could have some kind of "refer to moderators' group" process to deal with any complaints, rather than endless moaning in forums which only results in aggravation and more forum bans.

Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
I myself became the subject of a private apology.

I received three PRIVATE apologies from one Moderator.

The details were I was on the clan forum and as usual
they were all arguing and there was a lot of abuse being
thrown around.

The conversation was centred around unbalanced challenges
and cheating. The conversation became very heated ...[text shortened]... failed to address the issue
and simply said that if I wished they would return my subscription.

You're indeed lucky to have a moderator send you a 'private apology', I'm guessing that they felt somewhat compelled to make an example of someone there, and you fitted the bill...that day at least. Unfortunately the clan forum seems to descend into something way beyond mere 'taunting and goading of the clans'...truth be told it's just comedy most of the time, rarely is something genuinely NEW posted there as the same old antics resurface again and again. I'm not telling you anything you're not aware of though, despite your 'tender years' on RHP lol... it's not rocket science to understand what's taking place, there are a few chaps that just won;t stand down over their various 'issues' with other members. It is pretty harmless though, considering everyone insists they've been hard-done-by by the other regular posters...basically I tend to take the view that it's just hardcore tomfoolery...what is the expression; 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen'...nobody will back down, it's not in their interest to as it defines being a member of that forum 😉
I'd thoroughly recommend not to post there, not ever again...it will rot your brain as sure as I'm talking absolute bollox here...you'll become more and more 'mesmerised', compelled to make nasty comments about people you really do share an affinity with...but more reason that I limit myself from posting there. more than anything else, is when I think back all those years ago when at 'extended family gatherings'... I heard hushed tales of my great aunty, the one that totally lost her marbles overnight...it pains me to admit it, but she too was a regular of the clan public forum !!
The crux;
QUIT NOW...'just say no !'...save yourself whilst you're still young !!