1. Joined
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    15 Dec '06 10:30
    Whilst I can appreciate that something had to be done about the losers that deliberately reduce their rating to enter banded tourni's I have to say that the new system is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut!!!

    Using this method i'm now restricted to tourni's over 1701. I hit this high for 1 day after two timeouts in the clan league v a player rated 2000+.

    I may get above 1700 again but I have to say that my record (currently) against players this high is poor.

    It seems that fair players are being punished for the actions of a few losers. Surely a fairer method can be implimented.

    I would suggest rolling average over 6 months and couple this with a max rating minus 5% figure. The tournament entry criteria is whichever is the higher.

    Thus those who go on a long break would come back and their tourni limit is still max - 10%. It would also smooth out rating spikes and would mean that the 'resign games to get in low banded tourni' players could no longer do so.

    If this is too complicated then max - 5% would seem fairer as this would also smooth out rating spikes and stop the losers as well.

    Thank you
  2. Standard memberDaemon Sin
    I'm A Mighty Pirateβ„’
    PaTROLLING the forum
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    15 Dec '06 11:373 edits
    Originally posted by Grandmaster bater
    Whilst I can appreciate that something had to be done about the losers that deliberately reduce their rating to enter banded tourni's I have to say that the new system is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut!!!

    Using this method i'm now restricted to tourni's over 1701. I hit this high for 1 day after two timeouts in the clan league v a player r airer as this would also smooth out rating spikes and stop the losers as well.

    Thank you
  3. Joined
    06 Aug '05
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    42926
    15 Dec '06 15:34
    Originally posted by Grandmaster bater
    Whilst I can appreciate that something had to be done about the losers that deliberately reduce their rating to enter banded tourni's I have to say that the new system is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut!!!

    Using this method i'm now restricted to tourni's over 1701. I hit this high for 1 day after two timeouts in the clan league v a player r ...[text shortened]... airer as this would also smooth out rating spikes and stop the losers as well.

    Thank you
    How many other players who hover around the 1650 mark have occationally plunged over the 1700 mark? I'd say probably most of them, myself included and I usually hover closer to the 1600 mark.

    So, why's it unfair that you're forced to play with these people in banded tournaments?

    I know that there have been a lot of banded tourneys set at 1700+, I don't think that'll be the case in future because there are now loads more players that only qualify for this group, hence we should start seeing banded tournaments with something like 1800+ as the top band. And if you think about it, most players who hover around the 1750 mark will probably have crossed into 1800 territory at some point.

    Another thing to note is that the is only a temporary solution, Chris and Russ have been working on a more complicated, and hopefully fairer method for tournament entry. It'd be good to hear from them what the system will be and when we could expect it.

    I do understand why you're not happy though, it is a bit tough to fall into the next band through timeouts, although this could be alleviated if a little more imagination was used when banded tournaments were created, what's wrong with a series of bands that run from xx25-yy25, absolutely nothing, each time a new set of banded tournaments are created they could cycle round the bands, xx0,xx25,xx50, and xx75.

    I think as far as temporary solutions go, it's a very good one. It's stopped many sandbaggers in their tracks and took minimal effort for Chris to implement. It's true what they say though, you can't please all of the people all of the time (ok, so the quote's not quite right!)
  4. Joined
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    15 Dec '06 17:25
    I was not aware that this is a temporary solution. I'm happy to wait for now because as you say, some people are spoiling tournaments by manipulating ratings.

    I'm sure that there are 100's of regular players that now have to enter tournaments well above their actual level because of a 'blip' in their rating.
  5. Joined
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    15 Dec '06 17:38
    Originally posted by Grandmaster bater
    I was not aware that this is a temporary solution. I'm happy to wait for now because as you say, some people are spoiling tournaments by manipulating ratings.

    I'm sure that there are 100's of regular players that now have to enter tournaments well above their actual level because of a 'blip' in their rating.
    I'm glad you're happier now, unfortunately the announcement was made in the tournament forum in a thread called "I hate.........". It should have been a bit more public than that!
  6. 127.0.0.1
    Joined
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    15 Dec '06 21:12
    Originally posted by Grandmaster bater
    I was not aware that this is a temporary solution. I'm happy to wait for now because as you say, some people are spoiling tournaments by manipulating ratings.

    I'm sure that there are 100's of regular players that now have to enter tournaments well above their actual level because of a 'blip' in their rating.
    Since it affects everyone, is it really "above your rating"? Who seriously can keep their rating from occasionally going 100 points higher than what they think it is?
  7. Glasgow, Scotland
    Joined
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    61682
    15 Dec '06 23:011 edit
    I think your idea is good. I am now 'stuck' at 1730, probably about 50 points above my top strength on a good day. However, I often have problems with banded tourneys where a player often emerges with a gigantic rating compared to the rest of us. I have just qualified for the final round of a max 1700 tourney to discover another 'finalist' is rated 2000+. 'Cannon' and 'fodder' spring to mind......

    Peter

    Sorrry, meant this to be a reply to the opening statement...
  8. THORNINYOURSIDE
    Joined
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    17 Dec '06 21:12
    Originally posted by Grandmaster bater
    Whilst I can appreciate that something had to be done about the losers that deliberately reduce their rating to enter banded tourni's I have to say that the new system is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut!!!

    Using this method i'm now restricted to tourni's over 1701. I hit this high for 1 day after two timeouts in the clan league v a player r ...[text shortened]... airer as this would also smooth out rating spikes and stop the losers as well.

    Thank you
    In a way I agree. I think that the minimum tournament entry limit should be 150/200 points less than you maximum rating in the last year.

    This would allow you to enter tournaments around your normal standard of play and not just tournaments based on a one off high rating.

    As it stands, it means that as I managed a blip rating of 1501 following a good run of winning games against players rated 1250-1350, I am now limited to banded tournaments for players rated 1500+. This effectively means that I am unable to enter tournaments πŸ™ as I know the standard of play is far higher than I am at.

    A quick look at my ratings graph shows that I am fairly constant within a 1250-1350 average. Since Sept 2006 I have been as low as 1163 and a maximum of 1405.

    Unfortunately I am now limited to entering tournaments such as the Xmas 1500-1700 Grouped Random Tournament 1675 and will have to face the likes of User 228475 a solid 1600+ rated played with a high of 1688, User 146976 again a solid 1600+ player with a high of 1680.

    Short of a timeout win or them making a few really stupid moves then my chances of a win against them is realistically about 5%.

    A more realistic approach needs to be taken to sort out this anomally and sooner rather than later.
  9. Standard memberrhb
    Ginger Scum
    Paranoia
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    17 Dec '06 21:40
    Originally posted by adramforall
    blah

    This effectively means that I am unable to enter tournaments πŸ™ as I know the standard of play is far higher than I am at.

    blah
    The system now is better than it was before, and I'm sure it'll be refined in future, but in the meantime how about you just enjoy the challenge of playing a stronger player, learn something in defeat, or maybe surprise yourself and win a few games?

    If we all turned down games against stronger players, we'd never advance.
  10. Standard memberRamned
    The Rams
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    17 Dec '06 22:28
    Originally posted by Grandmaster bater
    Whilst I can appreciate that something had to be done about the losers that deliberately reduce their rating to enter banded tourni's I have to say that the new system is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut!!!

    Using this method i'm now restricted to tourni's over 1701. I hit this high for 1 day after two timeouts in the clan league v a player r ...[text shortened]... airer as this would also smooth out rating spikes and stop the losers as well.

    Thank you
    yeah, I agree. I've been to 1634 only b/c preliminary bloating. It's not going to be fun when I subscribe (very soon). I'm a 1450 player, forced to play 1550 - 1600 :'(
  11. SubscriberChris
    Site Admin
    Wimbledon
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    17 Dec '06 23:002 edits
    Originally posted by Ramned
    yeah, I agree. I've been to 1634 only b/c preliminary bloating. It's not going to be fun when I subscribe (very soon). I'm a 1450 player, forced to play 1550 - 1600 :'(
    The system was changed to make it more likely that players will face correct opposition in banded tournaments - certainly it is not intended to make it less likely!

    As the rule applies to every player on the site, you will surely find that you are actually playing pretty much the same players as before but hopefully there will be a decrease in the number of players entering tournaments that are way below their real strength.

    I'll make more tournaments with irregular bands (for example 1425 - 1525) which should help people who are one point over a band limits.

    No matter what system is put in place, it will always be possible to find examples of players who you would rather not face and who fortuitously find themselves in a favourable position with regards to the entry criteria (for example, this always applies to someone with a rating of 1699 who can enter a 1500-1700 tournament), but it's pretty tough to design a system that allows every player on the site to win at least one tournament each πŸ™‚
  12. The sky
    Joined
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    17 Dec '06 23:04
    Originally posted by Chris
    it's pretty tough to design a system that allows every player on the site to win at least one tournament each πŸ™‚
    Maybe if you'd create lots and lots of duels and limit the number of participants to two...
  13. Joined
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    150349
    18 Dec '06 13:30
    Originally posted by Chris
    The system was changed to make it more likely that players will face correct opposition in banded tournaments - certainly it is not intended to make it less likely!

    As the rule applies to every player on the site, you will surely find that you are actually playing pretty much the same players as before but hopefully there will be a decrease in the number of ...[text shortened]... to design a system that allows every player on the site to win at least one tournament each πŸ™‚
    I fully appreciate all the efforts of those that run the site. And I think this solution is a vast improvement. Players that resign loads of games to get their rating down are effectively cheating as they are deliberately doing so to gain an advantage in tournaments.

    It's a shame that we have to even discuss situations like this but some people just can't play for pleasure. They have to try and win by fair or or not so fair means. Just look at the growing list of banned players and the lengths some will go to in order to get on the highest score table.

    Thanks and keep up the good work.
  14. SubscriberChris
    Site Admin
    Wimbledon
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    18 Dec '06 14:11
    Please see my post in Thread 58392 about the proposed new formula for tournament entry.
  15. Subscriberinvigorate
    Only 1 F in Uckfield
    Buxted UK
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    18 Dec '06 20:42
    Ultimately the big winners are new players and players who play few games.

    The more you play and the longer you've been here the higher your chances of big peak that is unreal.

    All time average rating is my preferred soolution.

    The new system ultimately encourages less play.

    I've never won a tournie here - I never really expect too - I possibly have the worst win to entry ratio on the site! I cetainly will never win one now.

    Am I bovverd?
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