Update TOS Please

To specifically ban the use of endgame table bases. That way we don't have to be subjected to any more "debates" about whether or not this is permitted.

Thread 64684
Thread 50984
Thread 40977

and I'm sure the list goes on. 😞

Originally posted by leisurelysloth
To specifically ban the use of endgame table bases. That way we don't have to be subjected to any more "debates" about whether or not this is permitted.

Thread 64684
Thread 50984
Thread 40977

and I'm sure the list goes on. 😞

Seems a wise idea since it keeps coming up. Many people don't realize a difference from database to these endgame tablebase generated by computers.

A nice info click link page explaining about engine use and tablebase etc. would be nice. Many new users also come asking how game mods do it. There is a bit of info that can be shared, and lots of info about it that should not be shared as not to make a better cheat.

If that were all placed nice in a good read, the question would come up much less and could be answered with a link rather than another fight about the subject.

Feel my rec.

P-

Originally posted by leisurelysloth
To specifically ban the use of endgame table bases. That way we don't have to be subjected to any more "debates" about whether or not this is permitted.

Thread 64684
Thread 50984
Thread 40977

and I'm sure the list goes on. 😞

Maybe the word tablebases should be added to make it crystal clear to those who can't tell the difference from databases.

edit; oops didn't see that last one - I agree. 🙂

Originally posted by leisurelysloth
To specifically ban the use of endgame table bases. That way we don't have to be subjected to any more "debates" about whether or not this is permitted.

Thread 64684
Thread 50984
Thread 40977

and I'm sure the list goes on. 😞

Perhaps also clearer that it is not permited to ask for help in games any in progress in Forums.
There are numerous examples of threads where people are surprised that it is not permitted.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Perhaps also clearer that it is not permited to ask for help in games any in progress in Forums.
There are numerous examples of threads where people are surprised that it is not permitted.

Because they haven't read the TOS in the first place.

How can you make it any clearer that you're not to ask any third party to assist you?

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Because they haven't read the TOS in the first place.

How can you make it any clearer that you're not to ask any third party to assist you?

D

"Third party" is not well understood by people not having English as their first language. To give an concrete example, like "not asking for advice for games in progress in forum" would say it in a clearer way.

"Third party" is a term in legal English, and I suppose it is not very well understood by native English speaking people either.

Third party? Is there more parties than labour and conservatists? Democrats or conservatists? Di blåe och di röe?

But of course you're right. It is well written and should suffice. But better still, if it was read in the first place. Perhaps if every month you are forsed to read it once more time, and have to accept it with a clock on a button. But anyway, why suppose they've forgotten their brain in a plastic back on the bus...

Originally posted by FabianFnas
"Third party" is not well understood by people not having English as their first language. To give an concrete example, like "not asking for advice for games in progress in forum" would say it in a clearer way.

"Third party" is a term in legal English, and I suppose it is not very well understood by native English speaking people either.

Third party ...[text shortened]... n. But anyway, why suppose they've forgotten their brain in a plastic back on the bus...

Perhaps Third Party could be replaced with "Any outside help other than books or database". It goes beyond asking in the forums, and getting help from an engine.

P-

Originally posted by Phlabibit
"Any outside help other than books or database"

Yes, that's much clearer. But it needs to be...

"Any outside help other than books, or databases containing past games"

...to exclude the endgame databases.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
"Third party" is a term in legal English, and I suppose it is not very well understood by native English speaking people either.

The problem is that if they use one specific case, ie: "not asking for advice for games in progress in forum", then people who got kicked for asking for help elsewhere, for example, Instant Messenger, will say "but it doesn't specify that you can't get help in instant messages."

(b) You will not use chess engines, chess software, chess computers or consult any third party to assist you in any game.

Chess is a game between 2 people. You don't have to know English legal terms to know that the third party refers to asking another person.

D

Originally posted by Phlabibit
"Any outside help other than books or database".

Can I get help indoors?

D

Originally posted by Phlabibit
Perhaps Third Party could be replaced with "Any outside help other than books or database". It goes beyond asking in the forums, and getting help from an engine.

P-

The problem with that definition is that it would exclude things like chess magazines and other printed / published materials, which are similar to books and therefore should be allowed. A player should be able to look up opening moves in a book, a database, magazine, newspaper, or on a website.

The legal wording "Third Party" is not easy to understand for non legal and non English readers. It should be explained further in the text.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
The legal wording "Third Party" is not easy to understand for non legal and non English readers. It should be explained further in the text.

The wording isn't legal language. It's English language. If you're going to take umbrage against the use of English in the TOS, then the only solution is for Russ to get lawyers to translate the TOS to every language.

From the definition below, the use of the word in legal language is restricted to only number 8.

D

par·ty /ˈpɑrti/ Pronunciation Key
Pronunciation[pahr-tee] Pronunciation Key noun, plural -ties, adjective, verb, -tied, -ty·ing.
–noun
1. a social gathering, as of invited guests at a private home, for conversation, refreshments, entertainment, etc.: a cocktail party.
2. a group gathered for a special purpose or task: a fishing party; a search party.
3. a detachment, squad, or detail of troops assigned to perform some particular mission or service.
4. a group of persons with common purposes or opinions who support one side of a dispute, question, debate, etc.
5. a group of persons with common political opinions and purposes organized for gaining political influence and governmental control and for directing government policy: the Republican party; the Democratic party.
6. the system of taking sides on public or political questions or the like.
7. attachment or devotion to one side or faction; partisanship: to put considerations of party first.
8. Law.
a. one of the litigants in a legal proceeding; a plaintiff or defendant in a suit.
b. a signatory to a legal instrument.
c. a person participating in or otherwise privy to a crime.
9. a person or group that participates in some action, affair, plan, etc.; participant: He was a party to the merger deal.
10. the person under consideration; a specific individual: Look at the party in the green velvet shorts.
11. a person or, usually, two or more persons together patronizing a restaurant, attending a social or cultural function, etc.: The headwaiter asked how many were in our party; a party of 12 French physicists touring the labs; a party of one at the small table.
12. a person participating in a telephone conversation: I have your party on the line.
13. any occasion or activity likened to a social party, as specified; session: The couple in the next apartment are having their usual dish-throwing party.
14. an advantageous or pleasurable situation or combination of circumstances of some duration and often of questionable character; period of content, license, exemption, etc.: The police broke in and suddenly the party was over for the nation's most notorious gunman.
–adjective
15. of or pertaining to a party or faction; partisan: party leaders.
16. of or for a social gathering: her new party dress.
17. being shared by or pertaining to two or more persons or things.
18. Heraldry. (of an escutcheon) having the field divided into a number of parts, usually two; parted.
–verb (used without object) Informal.
19. to go to or give parties, esp. a series of parties.
20. to enjoy oneself thoroughly and without restraint; indulge in pleasure.

Originally posted by David Tebb
The problem with that definition is that it would exclude things like chess magazines and other printed / published materials, which are similar to books and therefore should be allowed. A player should be able to look up opening moves in a book, a database, magazine, newspaper, or on a website.

We both forgot cave paintings.

P-

Originally posted by Phlabibit
We both forgot cave paintings.

P-

But only outside ones.