You know who and tournaments

Originally posted by trev33
tell me this, what's the difference between someone joining a tourney and after 2 weeks putting their flag up for a month and a person who is already on vacation joining a tournament and only moving sporadically if at all for a few weeks? the way i see it both hold up the tournament just as much as each other and both will end within 36 days.

so what's the difference? answer me 😵

It depends on who has >1500 games going that they aren't keeping up with...

Again I'm not complaining about people playing at their own pace. I'm complaining about a system that allows people to not play and to continue to promise to play.

Will you answer my question? Why do you NEED to enter a tourney with your flag flying?

Originally posted by TerrierJack
It depends on who has >1500 games going that they aren't keeping up with...

Again I'm not complaining about people playing at their own pace. I'm complaining about a system that allows people to not play and to continue to promise to play.

Will you answer my question? Why do you NEED to enter a tourney with your flag flying?

who the hell plays 1500 games? that's not chess, not even blitz. it doesn't matter whether you're playing 5 games or 200 games, everyone has 36 days vacation and can use them how they want to.

about entering the tournament and then putting up your vacation flag....sometimes things happen in life that mean you can't move as much as you thought you could when you joined a tourney...possible even after a day or 2 after joining. or perhaps it's a 1/0 tournament with a lot of games and you want that extra little bit of time for some games to avoid being timed out so you put your flag up, again there's no rule against that and like we've been saying it doesn't last for ever.

"I'm complaining about a system that allows people to not play and to continue to promise to play."

well sue me because that's what i'm doing now, i have 16 games going and 11 or 12 of them have no time back remaining, by your reasoning they should all be lost because i'm not moving. this is what the vacation system was brought in for. i don't want to play but i don't want to lose my games so i put myself on vacation. do you see one of my opponents starting a thread 'my opponent is pretending to be on holiday'? no because they all understand that everyone has 36 days vacation that they will or will not use whenever they want.

patience is a virtue.

the system really is fine the way it is, tournament last forever an extra month isn't going to hurt. i've been waiting for round 2 of a tournament for about 3 months now, am i complaining about it? of course not.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
I understand what you are saying - but can you understand that to actually implement your system it requires more work by the site? My suggestion is simple: on vacation? not allowed to enter a tournament. If you have 1500 games going when you decide to shut off vacation so you can enter another tourney the effort will be far greater than just making a ...[text shortened]... g every tourney you can? I'm not asking for a perfect world just one with rational limits.

I don't see much work that needs to be done.

Addition of extra sub-names in each tourney.
If a user is on vacation, they are dumped for another user.

With your system, you can still just shut off your vacation and enter the tourney. If you are still on vacation when the tourney starts, you are in with your system.

Also, you mention users with several hundred (too many) games. You are trying to change rules based on a few loons, rules that are perfectly fine when it comes to most users at RHP.

Limiting the number of games a person can enter is not an option in ANY way here at RHP.

P-

Originally posted by trev33
who the hell plays 1500 games? that's not chess, not even blitz. it doesn't matter whether you're playing 5 games or 200 games, everyone has 36 days vacation and can use them how they want to.

about entering the tournament and then putting up your vacation flag....sometimes things happen in life that mean you can't move as much as you thought you could wh ...[text shortened]... tournament for about 3 months now, am i complaining about it? of course not.

You must really feel guilty about what you are doing to react so strongly but what I am talking about has nothing to do with your situation. As long as you are not entering more tournaments I don't care whether you use every last bit of vacation (even if you were my opponent.) You have the vacation. You can use it as you will. You just shouldn't be able to take on more games without responsibly dealing with the ones you have. I am not trying to get players to move faster. That is, in fact, almost the opposite of what I want. I offer my condolences for your situation but I started this thread to make a suggestion and not discuss your problems.

Originally posted by Phlabibit
I don't see much work that needs to be done.

Addition of extra sub-names in each tourney.
If a user is on vacation, they are dumped for another user.

With your system, you can still just shut off your vacation and enter the tourney. If you are still on vacation when the tourney starts, you are in with your system.

Also, you mention users with se ...[text shortened]...
Limiting the number of games a person can enter is not an option in ANY way here at RHP.

P-

As it appears to me, and only an operator can confirm or clarify this, tournaments are started when they fill up with the required number of players. If you can't enter the tournament when your flag is flying then you can't be part of the group that eventually fills the tournament. No checking after the fact is required. Under your suggestion every tourney that reached capacity would then have to verify whether all players entered still qualified and if not would remain pending. My check is done up front for one player. Don't you see that from the standpoint of the site this is much simpler? AND - why would this bother either of the 2 of you that are arguing with me? You both have only a few games going. Do you secretly desire to enter 10 tournaments while your flag is flying? It doesn't appear that you've done it so far. Why are you so insistent that the earth be made an oyster for jerks?

Originally posted by TerrierJack
You must really feel guilty about what you are doing to react so strongly but what I am talking about has nothing to do with your situation. As long as you are not entering more tournaments I don't care whether you use every last bit of vacation (even if you were my opponent.) You have the vacation. You can use it as you will. You just shouldn't be ab ...[text shortened]... r your situation but I started this thread to make a suggestion and not discuss your problems.

quitly about an internet chess game, er no.

so you're argument is not only for tournaments but for regular friendlies, siege games, clan matches etc. as well? when you're on vacation you shouldn't be allowed to start another game?

Originally posted by trev33
quitly about an internet chess game, er no.

so you're argument is not only for tournaments but for regular friendlies, siege games, clan matches etc. as well? when you're on vacation you shouldn't be allowed to start another game?

Challenge is challenge - you can accept or not. I must confess that I know very little about siege and clan. Siege seems like it IS a challenge so how can you challenge when you're not committed to play? (If you hold the board essentially the challenger is agreeing to wait until you are available anyway.) Clan? I don't know how those games are assigned so I can't say?! For a tourney you don't have any choice you play who you are assigned so that's my main point - you have an expectation that your opponents will play (not a guarantee!) If your dog dies or your pet gerbil graduates from school I don't want to be in the position of judging you but if that has already happened then why would you enter more tournaments? No respectful player would until those issues were resolved.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

That's not really my issue but it wouldn't bother me if those tournaments were just clearly marked: [go on vacation - the skull will appear regardless - only your opponent's mercy will save you.] (Does the email system allow you to broadcast an email to a whole tournament?) I would not skull someone in that condition if they had a reason that was unavoidable (internet outage, family death, and so on.) My point is that a tournament should start with the expectation that your opponents will play because you don't have a choice. I can't just delete a tournament game and say I don't care to waste my time. If I do specifically pick someone to play it should be my responsibility. When I am matched automatically it should be with someone who has committed to play and is not currently avoiding play. In general if they choose to avoid it later I can live with it within the rules but it would be nice to also have tournaments without that possibility so the players can make a choice.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
That's not really my issue but it wouldn't bother me if those tournaments were just clearly marked: [go on vacation - the skull will appear regardless - only your opponent's mercy will save you.] (Does the email system allow you to broadcast an email to a whole tournament?) I would not skull someone in that condition if they had a reason that was unavo ...[text shortened]... e nice to also have tournaments without that possibility so the players can make a choice.

I don't understand your concern.

This is a correspondence chess site - games are expected to take a LONG time. Why are you so fired up about a few tournament games where someone is using their vacation? If you have a game that's not moving, then start another one??

It is of no concern of mine how long an opponent has spent contemplating a move. They may have spent the whole time agonsiing over every nuance of the game - they might have blitzed it in the ten seconds before the timeout ran out. I'll never know.
I can only play the position I'm presented in the time I have - and if I don't have time .. then maybe I can use some vacation.

Whatever system you implement, someone somewhere will find a way to abuse it.
I don't think that by stopping people entering tournaments whilst on vacation will stop players "abusing" the vacation system.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
Why are people on vacation allowed to enter tournaments? How can you be unavailable and yet proclaim yourself ready to play in a tournament? Preventing this would go a long way towards slowing some people's abusive nature. (And I could actually enter a tournament without having to waste my time playing them.)

Many users of the vacation system merely use the days to string out their games.

Its annoying but something the membership voted for before you joined the site.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/vote/result.php?voteid=13

Are you saying that if I am on vacation with say two days holiday left, and I log in at an internet cafe and see a tournament which has a 3/7 limit that I am not allowed to enter because I am on vacation?

What next, if a person times out in a game they are not allowed to start a another game?

Would you simians (and I mean that as a compliment) please read the thread! I'm not complaining about vacation use and I well know that this is supposed to be correspondence chess (I played it for real most likely before you 2 fell from the tree.)

The very term "vacation" is misleading. There are numerous reasons to set the vacation flag, without even going somewhere.
The vacation flag gives us just one benefit, and that is immunity from time outs during the 'vacation'. But still the clock runs, meaning when the 'vacation' is over, our time bank is empty. If it stopped the clocks, then it would be a real advantage, but it's not so.

Let's call 'vacation' something else'!

I like the vacation system, although I'd be happier if it was less than 36 days. It does, however, provide a loophole for clowns, like PlayerX who is currently running more than 2000 games, to rack up this huge number without having to actually play the games. Many of us who want to play in tournaments find they have quickly filled with people like PlayerX who has the ability to put any tournament into "die-before-it-finishes" mode. Perhaps the solution to this problem lies not in any change to the vacation system, but a gameload limit of, say, 1000 or 1200 games.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
Will you answer my question? Why do you NEED to enter a tourney with your flag flying?

To address your original point - entering tourneys.

In short, I NEED to enter, in case I MISS the tourney.

I flag vacation when I have too much on, including business travel. At these times I might look at the site in passing, or I might not. Internet access will also be sporadic. I know that it will be all over in a week or so, but right now, I cannot spare the time to think chess moves through - so the flag goes up.

When I look right now at the available tourneys, I see 2 banded which apply to me, and a single grand long haul, which could be interesting.

If I wanted to enter these tourneys, why on earth should I not? I can enter, with knowledge from experience that I will probably be back again before the tourney actually kicks off. So to turn your question around, why should I not enter?

Or to take a more extreme case - I see a banded grand long haul. These are rarer than rocking horse s***. I'll jump on that, even if I have to lose a day of vacation by switching it on and off.
With any luck, I'll still be playing the GLH in two years time. And look back to find the last banded GLH. The closest I found was February, 20 pages back, and that was only a LH i.e. no timebank. If I look at the site while my vacation flag is up, and one is available, why on earth should I miss my chance just because I cannot move this week?

Phlab: I'm afraid the same applies to vacation subs - I'd be a bit miffed if my BGLH started during my week of vacation, and someone else got my spot. Maybe only very short timelimit tourneys need a sub.

p.s. to Site Admins
I am not whining about lack of interesting available tournaments - I have enough on right now.