@ G-75 and Or R.C.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Depends on whom you ask, obviously.

Asking a JW would garner you a "yes", I'm guessing, while most Christians would say "no".

Probably not restricted to the JWs. You could ask a Catholic the same question, and they'd probably say "yes", you would have to be a Catholic. Same with the Mormons. Or any sect, probably.

Probably not restricted to the JWs. You could ask a Catholic the same question, and they'd probably say "yes", you would have to be a Catholic. Same with the Mormons. Or any sect, probably.

Not with Catholics, no. The Catholic Church believes that all are Christian who have been baptised according to the Trinitarian formula. Since Vatican II, the Church has generally looked very favourably towards other Christian churches. The Orthodox are referred to as sister churches; Protestant churches, while strictly not regarded as churches because of their lack of holy orders, are still said to share in the mystical body of the Church (this is the language of the conciliar document, Nostra Aetate and Lumen Gentium). Through shared Scripture or even desire to live a moral life, even those lacking baptism, may share in Christ's church. A Catholic could not really, even in the cases of JWs who lack valid baptism, refuse to call them Christians.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not even close.

I believe the Catholics spread it a lot further than the JWs, not necessarily to the benefit of the locals.

Oh, but their benefit is infinite and eternal, no?

World Population by Religion: http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/greatc.html

Christian 2,199,817,400
Roman Catholics 1,121,516,000
Independents* 433,096,000
Protestants 381,811,000
Orthodox 233,146,000
Anglicans 82,586,000
Muslims 1,387,454,500
Hindus 875,726,000
Chinese universists 385,621,500
Buddhists 385,609,000
Sikhs 22,927,500
Jews 14,956,000

*This term denotes members of Christian churches and networks that regard themselves as postdenominationalist and neo-apostolic and thus independent of historic, mainstream, organized, institutionalized, confessional, denominationalist Christianity.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'd like an explanation, but you can only explain if you give an answer either yes or no?

I already know the answer though as stated above.

Have you forgotten the lengthy debate we had on this a few months ago?

Originally posted by Conrau K
[b]Probably not restricted to the JWs. You could ask a Catholic the same question, and they'd probably say "yes", you would have to be a Catholic. Same with the Mormons. Or any sect, probably.

Not with Catholics, no. The Catholic Church believes that all are Christian who have been baptised according to the Trinitarian formula. Since Vatican II, t ...[text shortened]... not really, even in the cases of JWs who lack valid baptism, refuse to call them Christians.[/b]

Valid baptism? Lol. Only unvalid by Catholics but not unvalied by the Bible. Don't the Catholics sprinkle some tap water over you and your baptized or do they do total emmersion as the Bible says to do, yet?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Not even close.

I believe the Catholics spread it a lot further than the JWs, not necessarily to the benefit of the locals.

Not so I'm afraid. There are more Catholics for sure but how much time do they ALL do the teaching work Jesus told his followers to do as shown in Matt the 24th & 28th chapters? None. But they do let their Clergy Class ( which "class" Jesus condemned himself ) do a preaching "not really a teaching" work from the pulpit instead of door to door as Jesus himself did and told us to do.
The Witnesses do not have a clergy/layity division and we all do this teaching work in over 250 countries and spend over 8 billion hours a year doing this for free.
I'm 55 and have never had a Catholic knock on my door to teach me anything from the Bible.

Originally posted by galveston75
Valid baptism? Lol. Only unvalid by Catholics but not unvalied by the Bible. Don't the Catholics sprinkle some tap water over you and your baptized or do they do total emmersion as the Bible says to do, yet?

I still don't get why you can't answer this simple question.

Originally posted by galveston75
Not so I'm afraid. There are more Catholics for sure but how much time do they ALL do the teaching work Jesus told his followers to do as shown in Matt the 24th & 28th chapters? None. But they do let their Clergy Class ( which "class" Jesus condemned himself ) do a preaching "not really a teaching" work from the pulpit instead of door to door as Jesus h ...[text shortened]... I'm 55 and have never had a Catholic knock on my door to teach me anything from the Bible.

The primary duty of the priest is to administer the sacraments. Preaching in church is restricted to those at least of diaconal order. Teaching and witness, however, is a responsibility of all Catholics. There are lay Catholic missionaries; lay Catholic apologists; lay Catholic teachers, theologians and catechists. Obviously also all parents are bound to instruct their children in the Catholic faith. It is not as if only Catholic priests can talk about the faith.

As for door-knocking, no Catholics will practice this. The main reason is that it is not generally a successful method of conversion. Certainly a few people may be interested but even if they were to convert to Catholicism, they would probably lose steam and return to their former life. The Catholic Church wants authentic conversion. It does this by witnessing in schools, hospitals and social justice missions. It engages with people at that level. People become part of a charitable community before they opt for the faith. Better that than prey on vulnerable people to make easy converts.

Originally posted by galveston75
Valid baptism? Lol. Only unvalid by Catholics but not unvalied by the Bible. Don't the Catholics sprinkle some tap water over you and your baptized or do they do total emmersion as the Bible says to do, yet?

Catholics baptize by "living" water, which is moving and not tap water. I was baptized in a Catholic church by total immersion, as was everyone with me and everyone since me. Research much?

Originally posted by Conrau K
The primary duty of the priest is to administer the sacraments. Preaching in church is restricted to those at least of diaconal order. Teaching and witness, however, is a responsibility of all Catholics. There are lay Catholic missionaries; lay Catholic apologists; lay Catholic teachers, theologians and catechists. Obviously also all parents are bound to in ...[text shortened]... before they opt for the faith. Better that than prey on vulnerable people to make easy converts.

Well if you call it preying on innocent people then Jesus was guilty of that too. If the Catholic's way of this work is as you describe here then why didn't Jesus and the apostles do that instead?

Acts 5:42 (King James Version)

42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Matthew 10:11-14 (King James Version)

11And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.


Matthew 24:14 (King James Version)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


It would seem by these scriptures that the Catholics as well as most religions should just scratch these out of your Bible's as you seem to think they are worthless and out of date or whatever. I would think ignoring a direct command from Jesus himself is not a safe way to run a church.

Originally posted by Sahuaro
Catholics baptize by "living" water, which is moving and not tap water. I was baptized in a Catholic church by total immersion, as was everyone with me and everyone since me. Research much?

Baby's aren't baptized by water being sprinkled on them?

Originally posted by galveston75
Baby's aren't baptized by water being sprinkled on them?

Of course not. Sprinkling is generally not permitted for baptism. Only infusion (i.e. 'pouring'😉 or immersion. Aspersion is not allowed except in exigent circumstances, even then, it is only valid if the sprinkled water actually flows i.e. is 'living'.

Originally posted by galveston75
Well if you call it preying on innocent people then Jesus was guilty of that too. If the Catholic's way of this work is as you describe here then why didn't Jesus and the apostles do that instead?

Acts 5:42 (King James Version)

42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Matthew 10:11-14 ( ...[text shortened]... I would think ignoring a direct command from Jesus himself is not a safe way to run a church.

I don't see how this conflicts with Catholic practice. There are probably more Catholic missionaries than JWs. Whatever their method, Catholics seem to have been very successful.

Originally posted by Conrau K
I don't see how this conflicts with Catholic practice. There are probably more Catholic missionaries than JWs. Whatever their method, Catholics seem to have been very successful.

It conflicts completely. Jesus condemned a clergy class by his own words, did he not?
He told all his followers to do the worldwide work and to do it by going door to door which your missionarys do not do. Do they? No.
And your normal members or flock never do this. I have never seen or heard of anyone from the Catholic church participating in anything of the sort.
Again hundreds of thousands of JW's were once Catholic and they were never told or asked or shown how to do the work Jesus said for us all to do.
If you really believe they do this as Jesus did you are surely mistaken.
When was the last time you did a door to door teaching work that Jesus told you to do?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well if you call it preying on innocent people then Jesus was guilty of that too. If the Catholic's way of this work is as you describe here then why didn't Jesus and the apostles do that instead?

Acts 5:42 (King James Version)

42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


Matthew 10:11-14 ( ...[text shortened]... I would think ignoring a direct command from Jesus himself is not a safe way to run a church.

Matthew 24:14 (King James Version)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Besides the Jehovah's Witnesses
there are other Christians trying to fulfill this command. They are not only
going throughout many parts of the world as missionaries, some which
are dangerous places to go, to teach, preach, and start Christian
churches today; but they are also, setting up satelite receiving stations
so they can receive Christian broadcasts from the USA.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Matthew 24:14 (King James Version)

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Besides the Jehovah's Witnesses
there are other Christians trying to fulfill this command. They are not only
going throughout many parts of the world as missionaries, some which
are d ...[text shortened]... setting up satelite receiving stations
so they can receive Christian broadcasts from the USA.

I'm not denying that some are doing what they can and love what their doing. But what is the "Good News" Jesus said to teach them about? And according to Matthew 28:19,20 it says to do this " In the name of the Father and the name of the son."
We know what the son's name is but who else on earth uses his Fathers name?