Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk For example the law of gravity, do you not think the mountain of evidence is so great that we can call that a universal truth that no one can deny?
Same answer as above. You know exactly what I think of your use of the word "universal" and yet you keep asking me about it over and over and over and over again? Ultimately, you want people to agree with you that your religious beliefs constitute "universal truths that no one can deny", so you should try out your terminology on people who already agree with you.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk What if your truth and my truth are contradictory? If I believe Jesus died on a cross and you believe he didn't, then our beliefs can't both be true, since he either died on the cross or he didn't. Historians would seem to support my belief in this case. Truth by nature is absolute and universal and is not dependant on belief.
'Historians seeming to support your belief' is hardly grounds for claims of absolute truth now, is it?
And even if historians were able to prove that Jesus did die on the cross would this make your claim that he died for the sins of mankind absolute,....of course not.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke 'Historians seeming to support your belief' is hardly grounds for claims of absolute truth now, is it?
And even if historians were able to prove that Jesus did die on the cross would this make your claim that he died for the sins of mankind absolute,....of course not.
Edit: Do you even think before you post?
Actually its more probable that Christ died on a simple upright stake.
Stauros ( σταυρός ) is the Greek word, literally meaning "upright stake" and usually translated as cross, which in the New Testament names the device on which Jesus was executed.
Originally posted by FMF Same answer as above. You know exactly what I think of your use of the word "universal" and yet you keep asking me about it over and over and over and over again? Ultimately, you want people to agree with you that your religious beliefs constitute "universal truths that no one can deny", so you should try out your terminology on people who already agree with you.
The nature of truth is such that out of two contradictory statements only one can be true. Either God as portrayed in the Bible exists or he doesn't. So either the statement 'God exists' is a universal truth or the statement, 'God doesn't exist' is a universal truth. I can't see how you can claim to be rational and not realize this.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk The nature of truth is such that out of two contradictory statements only one can be true. Either God as portrayed in the Bible exists or he doesn't. So either the statement 'God exists' is a universal truth or the statement, 'God doesn't exist' is a universal truth. I can't see how you can claim to be rational and not realize this.
Do you accept the universal truth that God doesn't exist?
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Do you accept the universal truth that God doesn't exist?
I believe universal truth has a source, for me that source is God. So to say God doesn't exist is equivalent to saying there is no universal truth. I cannot reconcile the reality of moral truth and logic with the absence of God. Can you?
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk I believe universal truth has a source, for me that source is God. So to say God doesn't exist is equivalent to saying there is no universal truth. I cannot reconcile the reality of moral truth and logic with the absence of God. Can you?
Let's see.
First you say this:
"Either God as portrayed in the Bible exists or he doesn't. So either the statement 'God exists' is a universal truth or the statement, 'God doesn't exist' is a universal truth."
Now you say this:
"I believe universal truth has a source, for me that source is God. So to say God doesn't exist is equivalent to saying there is no universal truth."
So in FMJs world, " the statement, 'God doesn't exist'" can BOTH be a "universal truth" AND "equivalent to saying there is no universal truth".
While I'm sure you believe that your position is coherent, you really need to set aside your pride and rethink it.
People don't think you're making sense simply because you're NOT making sense.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk The nature of truth is such that out of two contradictory statements only one can be true. Either God as portrayed in the Bible exists or he doesn't. So either the statement 'God exists' is a universal truth or the statement, 'God doesn't exist' is a universal truth. I can't see how you can claim to be rational and not realize this.
Look, I acknowledge and accept that you are ever so ... I mean really, really... certain, sincerely so, vehemently so, about all your superstitions and stuff like how you're going to keep living after you die, and about how your personal opinions are "universal truths". I get that this is what you tell yourself. And I get that you are utterly, utterly sure about it. I get it. I really do.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk I believe universal truth has a source, for me that source is God. So to say God doesn't exist is equivalent to saying there is no universal truth. I cannot reconcile the reality of moral truth and logic with the absence of God. Can you?
The fact you ask me that question merely highlights how you have not listened to anything I have ever said.
First you say this:
"Either God as portrayed in the Bible exists or he doesn't. So either the statement 'God exists' is a universal truth or the statement, 'God doesn't exist' is a universal truth."
Now you say this:
"I believe universal truth has a source, for me that source is God. So to say God doesn't exist is equivalent to saying t ...[text shortened]... d rethink it.
People don't think you're making sense simply because you're NOT making sense.
You make a salient point. I see it as a catch 22 situation or rather a paradox. If God doesn't exist, would it not be universally true to say he doesn't exist? But that being said if he didn't exist we probably would not have the concept of universal truth which we do have so we probably wouldn't be able to say it was a universal truth since only God is the source of universal truth. And since God is the source of all truth and logic, if God didn't exist, neither would truth nor logic.
Originally posted by FMF I'm sure historians will confirm that the Romans executed many tens of thousands of people by crucifixion. That Jesus was executed in this way for sedition is of no particular surprise.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
If I believe Jesus died on a cross and you believe he didn't, then our beliefs can't both be true, since he either died on the cross or he didn't. Historians would seem to support my belief in this case.
"That Jesus was executed in this way for sedition is of no particular surprise."
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk You make a salient point. I see it as a catch 22 situation or rather a paradox. If God doesn't exist, would it not be universally true to say he doesn't exist? But that being said if he didn't exist we probably would not have the concept of universal truth which we do have so we probably wouldn't be able to say it was a universal truth since only God is ...[text shortened]... ce God is the source of all truth and logic, if God didn't exist, neither would truth nor logic.
Evidently you are unable to set your pride aside.
As such, of course you see it as a "paradox". It's a way for the arrogantly self-deluded to maintain their beliefs no matter how incoherent. They paint themselves into a corner and instead of admitting it, they take solace in calling it a "paradox".
You should ask yourself why you insist on portraying God as an incoherency.
Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk You make a salient point. I see it as a catch 22 situation or rather a paradox. If God doesn't exist, would it not be universally true to say he doesn't exist? But that being said if he didn't exist we probably would not have the concept of universal truth which we do have so we probably wouldn't be able to say it was a universal truth since only God is ...[text shortened]... ce God is the source of all truth and logic, if God didn't exist, neither would truth nor logic.
And this week's prize for the bullsh***iest bull***t goes to...
@Divegeester
01 Feb '17 11:42
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