1. Meddling with things
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    03 Jul '05 00:41
    http://www.live8live.com/
    http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/

    Would all the christian and non christian people on this bored join together and act within their communities, their churches, with their friend to send a clear message to GW Bush. The G8 summit on Wednesday could act to end poverty in Africa. If the voice of the American people is loud in his ears GWB might earn a place in history as a world leader who acted without fear of failiure to eradicate poverty.

    Don't say you do plenty already, 20 children have died while I type. Don't say their governments are corrupt: these are innocent children, they deserve a chance for life and education.


    A child in Africa dies of causes related to poverty every four seconds.
  2. Joined
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    03 Jul '05 04:14
    Originally posted by aardvarkhome
    http://www.live8live.com/
    http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/

    Would all the christian and non christian people on this bored join together and act within their communities, their churches, with their friend to send a clear message to GW Bush. The G8 summit on Wednesday could act to end poverty in Africa. If the voice of the American people is loud in ...[text shortened]... life and education.


    A child in Africa dies of causes related to poverty every four seconds.
    Their governments ARE corrupt.

    What good did the 2 billion dollars raised by Live Aid (20 years ago or whenever that was) do?

    Bush has given more to African countries than any other President, and he's still pledging to give more...

    Poverty in Africa can not be ended simply by throwing money at the problem. How do we know this? Over 5 TRILLION DOLLARS spent on the 'war on poverty' in the U.S. hasn't worked. What makes anyone think that throwing money at Africa will end poverty there?

    The relatively few Africans who ARE able to get a decent education will usually get the hell out of there as fast as their feet will carry them. That is one of the major problems with Africa...the best and the brightest people over there don't stay there for long, because there is almost no opportunity to make money over there...unless you are a corrupt politican.

    So it is PRECISELY because of corrupt and oppressive governments that poverty can not even be dented over there, much less eliminiated.
  3. Standard memberchancremechanic
    Islamofascists Suck!
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    03 Jul '05 07:41
    Originally posted by TheBloop
    Their governments ARE corrupt.

    What good did the 2 billion dollars raised by Live Aid (20 years ago or whenever that was) do?

    Bush has given more to African countries than any other President, and he's still pledging to give more...

    Poverty in Africa can not be ended simply by throwing money at the problem. How do we know this? Over 5 TRILLION ...[text shortened]... nd oppressive governments that poverty can not even be dented over there, much less eliminiated.
    Very well put!...you get a rec...😉
  4. Standard memberchancremechanic
    Islamofascists Suck!
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    03 Jul '05 07:56
    Originally posted by aardvarkhome
    http://www.live8live.com/
    http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/

    Would all the christian and non christian people on this bored join together and act within their communities, their churches, with their friend to send a clear message to GW Bush. The G8 summit on Wednesday could act to end poverty in Africa. If the voice of the American people is loud in ...[text shortened]... life and education.


    A child in Africa dies of causes related to poverty every four seconds.
    I'd like to know what Saudi Arabia and Kuwait have done to end poverty is Islamic Africa....why aren't they part of the "wealthy nations of G8"...since most of northern Africa and a lot of the rest of Africa is Muslim, why can't they contribute as well as the "G8" countries?

    The U.S. spent 10,000,000,000 dollars on Haiti in the late 90s and look at Haiti today...it is worse off today than ever before....a literal "Mad Max" movie in the making

    Money CANNOT solve the problems in Africa until the Africans are READY for it to be solved...getting rid of corrupt politicians, family planning in preventing pregnancies and the spread of HIV by using condoms, environmental preservation and salvaging, good-sense farming education, and mandatory accountability from each country of any and all monies that are sent as aid

    I'm all for forgiving the debts as long as Africa uses the action to drag its butt up from the ground by its bootstraps if neccessary

    The old saying relates here as well: "Give a man a dollar and he eats for a day; give him the means and knowledge to produce crops, and he eats for a lifetime"...

  5. Meddling with things
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    03 Jul '05 13:06
    Originally posted by TheBloop
    Their governments ARE corrupt.

    What good did the 2 billion dollars raised by Live Aid (20 years ago or whenever that was) do?

    Bush has given more to African countries than any other President, and he's still pledging to give more...

    Poverty in Africa can not be ended simply by throwing money at the problem. How do we know this? Over 5 TRILLION ...[text shortened]... nd oppressive governments that poverty can not even be dented over there, much less eliminiated.
    9000 children have died since you posted. They were innocent. They were not corrupt.
    Why have we allowed this? We must ask this question of the World Bank, the World Trade Organisation and the United Nations. We must ask the question of our politoical leaders, our religious leaders and of ourselvers.

    We must send our leaders to the G8 with a simple message; Something must be done.

  6. Meddling with things
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    03 Jul '05 13:09
    Originally posted by chancremechanic


    Money CANNOT solve the problems in Africa until the Africans are READY for it to be solved...getting rid of corrupt politicians, family planning in preventing pregnancies and the spread of HIV by using condoms, environmental preservation and salvaging, good-sense farming education, and mandatory accountability from each country of any and all mon ...[text shortened]... or a day; give him the means and knowledge to produce crops, and he eats for a lifetime"...

    Good stuff! You're absolutely right

    Please make sure GWB knows how you feel.
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    03 Jul '05 15:09
    Originally posted by aardvarkhome
    Good stuff! You're absolutely right

    Please make sure GWB knows how you feel.
    well I think going through the govement is a waste, taxex increase $100.oo, and 2.00 makes it there, Why dont you do somthing yourself personaly, instead of trying to get everone else to do it, Im sure it would be better if everyone donated $20.00 instead of whining to to Bush
  8. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    03 Jul '05 15:17
    , Im sure it would be better if everyone donated $20.00 instead of whining to to Bush[/b]
    The best way to put money into Africa is through trade. Find something that comes from Africa and buy it. Preferably direct.

    A lot of people in Africa think that the the countries of the developed world owe them--for the human and natural resources that they stripped from the continent without bothering to ask. I don't regard this as a particularly productive way of thinking in terms of solving current problems (in fact it's used cynically by such despots as Mugabe to strengthen their grip on power), but I can't fault the reasoning behind it either.
  9. Joined
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    03 Jul '05 15:51
    Originally posted by aardvarkhome
    9000 children have died since you posted. They were innocent. They were not corrupt.
    Why have we allowed this? We must ask this question of the World Bank, the World Trade Organisation and the United Nations. We must ask the question of our politoical leaders, our religious leaders and of ourselvers.

    We must send our leaders to the G8 with a simple message; Something must be done.

    I totally agree with you that the children dying over there are innocent.
    Children as a rule are innocent.


    The World Bank is also corrupt. The WTO is corrupt. And the UN is THE most corrupt international organization in HISTORY. You telling me that these organizations don't have enough money to feed the entire starving population of Africa right now if they really, really wanted to?

    The reality is that the only way to remove any of these corrupt "leaders" in Africa would be to do so by force... of course, the U.S. can't really do that can we? Wouldn't that violate some kind of "International Law" that I keep hearing the libs carping about? (even though there is no such thing as international law)... Wouldn't it be "illegal" to interfere in the internal operations of other countries? Heck, none of those African countries have ever attacked us! They are no threat to the United States....Why should we stick our noses in these soverign countries? Don't they have a right to be free from U.S. 'occupation'? Who is the big, bad United States to be telling these hell-hole countries in Africa how best to run their affairs?


  10. Joined
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    03 Jul '05 15:53
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    The best way to put money into Africa is through trade. Find something that comes from Africa and buy it. Preferably direct.

    A lot of people in Africa think that the the countries of the developed world owe them--for the human and natural resources that they stripped from the continent without bothering to ask. I don't regard this as a particularly ...[text shortened]... as Mugabe to strengthen their grip on power), but I can't fault the reasoning behind it either.
    Excellent point... free trade would be the beginning of solving a lot of economic difficulties over there... of course, their own corrupt leaders would have to "allow" that first... and that's a tough one, particularly since the leaders of those nations don't WANT to solve the problems.
  11. SubscriberWajoma
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    03 Jul '05 15:54
    (in fact it's used cynically by such despots as Mugabe to strengthen their grip on power)

    Zimbabwe was once the breadbasket of Africa, When aid is sent there where do you think it goes....it goes into the pocket of one of the wealthiest men in the world. A man who's wealth came not by creating but by destroying.
  12. Joined
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    03 Jul '05 16:041 edit
    Originally posted by TheBloop
    I totally agree with you that the children dying over there are innocent.
    Children as a rule are innocent.


    The World Bank is also corrupt. The WTO is corrupt. And the UN is THE most corrupt international organization in HISTORY. Yo ...[text shortened]... hell-hole countries in Africa how best to run their affairs?


    Well said
  13. Standard memberBosse de Nage
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    03 Jul '05 16:05
    Zimbabwe...When aid is sent there where do you think it goes....it goes into the pocket of one of the wealthiest men in the world.
    He uses food aid as a control tool: if you belong to his party and have the card to prove it, you get some corn; if you don't, you starve. The areas of Zimbabwe worst affected by starvation are, unsurprisingly, the areas that voted for the opposition in the recent elections.

  14. Meddling with things
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    03 Jul '05 21:06
    Originally posted by flyUnity
    well I think going through the govement is a waste, taxex increase $100.oo, and 2.00 makes it there, Why dont you do somthing yourself personaly, instead of trying to get everone else to do it, Im sure it would be better if everyone donated $20.00 instead of whining to to Bush
    Your president may not be the best person to spend your money but he will be the voice of the USA at G8.

    Yes, we should donate but we must pressurise the poiticians to take action.

    (I don't know what form that action should take but dare I suggest Europe and the US remove tariff barriers, particularly on agricultural commodities and our education systems should reach out to train the next generation of technologists and administrators)
  15. Meddling with things
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    03 Jul '05 21:121 edit
    Originally posted by TheBloop
    I totally agree with you that the children dying over there are innocent.
    Children as a rule are innocent.


    The World Bank is also corrupt. The WTO is corrupt. And the UN is THE most corrupt international organization in HISTORY. Yo ...[text shortened]... hell-hole countries in Africa how best to run their affairs?


    Who is the big, bad United States to be telling these hell-hole countries in Africa how best to run their affairs?

    The same US who bombed Sudan (a country so poor that it barely has a pot to piss in); the cruise missile you used probably cost more than their entire economy. The same US who tried but sadly failed to help the Somalis when they tried to sort out the gangster warlords.

    I don't know what the right thing to do is but I'm sure that doing nothing while children die is unacceptable
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