A child in Africa dies of causes related to povert

Originally posted by aardvarkhome
Who is the big, bad United States to be telling these hell-hole countries in Africa how best to run their affairs?

The same US who bombed Sudan (a country so poor that it barely has a pot to piss in); the cruise missile you used probably cost more than their entire economy. The same US who tried but sadly failed to help the Somalis when they tried to ...[text shortened]... hat the right thing to do is but I'm sure that doing nothing while children die is unacceptable

That same "poor" country called Sudan was allowing Bin Laden to train terrorists for his financial support, supposedly using the chemical plant as a front for making bio-weapons....bad mistake on both parties, Sudan and the US.

The last time we attempted to help an African country using our military, 18 Army Rangers were killed and mutilated. I want no part of my country's military assisting Africa again...civilains, yes, but any military help should come from the Euros, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, India, Kuwait, China, Russia, and most of all from Africa itself....that's the United Nations force that I want to see assisting Africa..

Originally posted by chancremechanic
That same "poor" country called Sudan was allowing Bin Laden to train terrorists for his financial support, supposedly using the chemical plant as a front for making bio-weapons....bad mistake on both parties, Sudan and the US.

The last time we attempted to help an African country using our military, 18 Army Rangers were killed and mutilated. I ...[text shortened]... all from Africa itself....that's the United Nations force that I want to see assisting Africa..

Good connection: poverty + desperation = fertile ground for terrorism.

yes indeed, something must be done.

Just in case it hasn't made the US news media, there are British troops ion the ground in Sierra Leone. Their presence has stabilised the elected government and reduced the threat from insurgents. The UK is cooperating with a coilition of west African countries in this programme. As far as I understand it they haven't been involved in a shooting war, but their rpesence has defused the situation. We can help!

Originally posted by aardvarkhome
Who is the big, bad United States to be telling these hell-hole countries in Africa how best to run their affairs?

The same US who bombed Sudan (a country so poor that it barely has a pot to piss in); the cruise missile you used pro ...[text shortened]... ut I'm sure that doing nothing while children die is unacceptable

My questions were really rhetorical... the left wing in the U.S. keeps telling us that it's against some (non-existent) International Law for the U.S. to go into other countries and tell them how to live. Now these same people expect the U.S. to go save Africa.

Bill Clinton bombed the Sudan, not G W Bush... The Europeans love Clinton, and I'm sure they didn't say a hell of a lot when he did bomb the Sudanese aspirin factory.

Can you tell me what, if ANYTHING, the Europeans are doing about poverty in Africa? Europeans hate the U.S. except when something needs to be done, then they all want the U.S. to save the world...or to save their sorry asses.

It's time the Europeans started getting in on the fun of saving the world as well as protecting themselves. And they need to reach into their own pockets a little more if they think that money is the answer...

Seriously though, what IS Europe doing about of the problems in Africa?

You said that you don't know what the right thing is to do... the right thing to do would be to go in and take these corrupt dictators out by force. But again, the U.S. isn't supposed to interfere with the internal affairs of other countries, according to the liberals in the U.S. and Europe.

What Europe could do, if they really wanted to help Africa, is mass ALL of their militaries together in one Euro force, go into the smallest country in Africa being ruled by a corrupt dictator, and just TAKE HIM OUT. And then they could teach the people there about democracy and freedom, and have them hold their own elections and choose their own leaders. Once it happened in one country, the people in other neighboring countries will work to bring about the same kind of change.

Come on, all you folks over in Europe... why don't you show the us Americans just how easy it is to spread freedom and democracy, since you do everything better than we do... and you can take your pick as to which country you want to invade to bring about these changes...just pick the easiest one to get the ball rolling... go on, show the WORLD how easy it is!

Originally posted by Jaques Chirac
Doing zis we cannot be

Britain has improved its record on aid and debt releif since Bliar came to power. I don't know about the rest of Europe in detail.

The EU. in common with the US, subsidises agriculture to an obscene degree, leaving third world producers unable to compete.

Originally posted by TheBloop
My questions were really rhetorical... the left wing in the U.S. keeps telling us that it's against some (non-existent) International Law for the U.S. to go into other countries and tell them how to live. Now these same people expect the ...[text shortened]... e ball rolling... go on, show the WORLD how easy it is!

This isn't about the US vs Europe.

Its about everyone trying to make global trade fair so the africans can get themselves out of poverty.

I was at a makepovertyhistory event on Saturday and some of the facts are mind blowing. In europe every cow (or farmer who owns it) gets something like 915 euros subsidy while every person in africa gets around 18 euros.

We protect out industries like agriculture by giving subsidies and blocking foreign imports and yet when we give loans to these countries we only give the loan on the condition that they don't protect their farmers and open up their markets..

Also the IMF have previously demanded that less money be spend on healthcare, education etc on condition of giving the loan.

It just not fair, the rules are rigged and this movement is about giving them a fair chance. Dropping the debt and letting them take part in international trade on a level playing field.

and you two make a good point... i don't like the idea of subsidies or price controls..

Originally posted by TheBloop
and you two make a good point... i don't like the idea of subsidies or price controls..

Some degree of control seems necessary though. China is flooding many markets with super-cheap products. Should domestic markets collapse simply because Chinese workers are content to work like slaves?

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=38179

Pope presses G8 on aid to Africa

Vatican, Jul. 04 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) has pressed the leaders of the "G8" industrial nations to redouble their efforts against poverty, particularly in Africa.

The Pope sent a message to the "Make Poverty History" rally held in Edinburgh, Scotland, on July 2, in anticipation of the G8 meeting there July 6-8. The Pope's message, read to the crowd by Cardinal Keith O'Brien, called upon the wealthy nations "to fulfill the pledges made to reduce world poverty, especially in Africa, by the year 2015." The Holy Father joined in the hope that the problem of poverty might "be one day consigned to history."

Speaking to several thousand people in St. Peter's Square, the Pope mentioned the summit meeting at Gleneagles, Scotland, and argued that affluent countries should "play their part in ensuring a more just distribution of the world's goods."

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=38179

Originally posted by ivanhoe
http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=38179

Pope presses G8 on aid to Africa

Vatican, Jul. 04 (CWNews.com) - Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) has pressed the leaders of the "G8" industrial nations to redouble their efforts against poverty, particularly in Africa.

The Pope sent a message to the "Make Poverty History" rally held in Edinb ...[text shortened]... ribution of the world's goods."

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=38179

Did he also talk about fighting the intellectual poverty, supported by the catholic church, by allowing people in Africa to use condoms to fight Aids ... ?

Thought so.

Originally posted by aardvarkhome
Who is the big, bad United States to be telling these hell-hole countries in Africa how best to run their affairs?

The same US who bombed Sudan (a country so poor that it barely has a pot to piss in); the cruise missile you used probably cost more than their entire economy. The same US who tried but sadly failed to help the Somalis when they tried to ...[text shortened]... hat the right thing to do is but I'm sure that doing nothing while children die is unacceptable

Are you the one who is telling everyone else they should give more
money? Who are you?
Kelly

Originally posted by NicolaiS
Did he also talk about fighting the intellectual poverty, supported by the catholic church, by allowing people in Africa to use condoms to fight Aids ... ?

Thought so.

The intellectual richness taught by the Church is to have intimate sexual relations only with one partner and to stay faithful to that partner. If people followed that good advice then the spread of the HIV virus could be stopped.

I hope you don't think people who disobey the Church by messing around with multiple sex partners, suddenly become devote followers of the Faith and obey the Church if she says not to use artificial birth control methods, like condoms. Let's not get too naïve here, shall we ?

Besides this I want to present you a statement published in the Washington Times made by a representative of the rubber
chemistry industry:

"Contrarily, the AIDS virus is only 0.1 micron (4 millionths of an inch) in size. Since this is a factor of 50 smaller than the voids inherent in rubber, the virus can readily pass through the condom should it find a passage."

If you want to read the whole article please visit:

http://www.abortionfacts.com/learn/condoms.asp


I think we, the West, should stop telling lies to the African people. We should stop giving them the impression they do not have to change their sexual behaviour in order to be safe from the HIV virus by using condoms. Condoms make sex less "unsafe", but that's all. They deserve to hear the truth and that is that only being faithful to one partner and giving up promiscuous sexual behaviour will give the protection that is necessary to contain the virulent spread of the HIV virus.

Advocating and stimulating the use of condoms and thus telling people they do not have to change their sexual behaviour at all is stimulating the spread of the HIV virus and therefore a very irresponsible policy to implement. The only ones that will benefit from such a policy are the Western condom manufacturers, not the African people.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Are you the one who is telling everyone else they should give more
money? Who are you?
Kelly

No, I'm not telling anyone to give more money. More maney may not be the best solution.

I'm asking all people who are lucky enough to live in a democracy which is part of the G8 to lobby their leaders to take political action, to reduce tariff barriers, to drop or reschedule debts which are trivial amounts to the rich west but are dragging the poorest nations down into hopelessness.

I just read today that the leading cause of death among adolescent girls in AFrica is complications from PREGNANCY!! You have 11 and 12 year old girls being forced to marry men (often via arranged marriages) in their 20s, 30s and 40s, and who have already been with many partners... no wonder they can't control the spread of HIV over there.

I guess for starters, they need to lay off of the pre-teens...

That would at least be a start.

Of course, who are we to tell other people how to live (as the liberals would say)?

Originally posted by ivanhoe

The intellectual richness taught by the Church is to have intimate sexual relations only with one partner and to stay faithful to that partner. If people followed that good advice then the spread of the HIV virus could be stopped.

I hope you don't think people who disobey the Church by messing around with multiple sex partners, suddenly become devote ...[text shortened]... l benefit from such a policy are the Western condom manufacturers, not the African people.

Dear Ivanwho ... you still have a lot to learn don't you?

I never said that the use of condoms will stop the spread of AIDS ... it will decrease the chance of getting AIDS, and other STD's, because the exchange of bodily fluids is less when having sex with a condom then without.


Another prime reason to use rubbers in Africa ... also in the more faithful relations ... is that less children will be born. Children who can not be fed by what the country they live in can produce. A more stable population growth will give the poorer countries time to get their economies in order.

Originally posted by NicolaiS
Dear Ivanwho ... you still have a lot to learn don't you?

I never said that the use of condoms will stop the spread of AIDS ... it will decrease the chance of getting AIDS, and other STD's, because the exchange of bodily fluids is les ...[text shortened]... e the poorer countries time to get their economies in order.

As you may know people in developing countries take children as an insurancepolicy for the future. They must take care of their parents financially when they grow old and need assistance in life.

NicolaiS: "I never said that the use of condoms will stop the spread of AIDS"

What will in your view ?