A Formative Intellectual Figure in your Life

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
You're in for a treat! You read much fiction? If so, be sure to check out his Illuminatus trilogy too.

The Illuminatus trilogy is a classic.

The fornicating with the apple is one of my faves

Originally posted by JS357
I looked into Ramakrishna Paramhans a bit. Would you say that Alan Watts continued in his footsteps? Watts is in my library.

Watts quote: "...he maintains that the whole universe consists of a cosmic self playing hide-and-seek (Lila), hiding from itself (Maya) by becoming all the living and non-living things in the universe, forgetting what it really is; t ...[text shortened]... ild, but it serves for all.

http://www.wedietorememberwhatwelivetoforget.com/AlanWatts.html

Very sorry for the late reply ! But what an essay that Alan Watts had written as revealed in that second hyperlink !! Ramakrishna Paramhans could not have said it better ! Well, if you are brought up on these thoughts, what else do you really need to form yourself ?
Foe a westerner, and an agnostic, you are certainly clued in and more importantly sympathetic to eastern thinking.
While it is true that WE ( all of us-- beings and non-beings ) are forms of God just as sparks from a great fire are; we humans are often besieged by sorrow and suffering, all the terrible injustice and misery of this mayic world, till we ask God in the words of our poet Shailendra :- God, tell me why are you fond of playing with mud again and again ? God. tell me. why you are so fond of broken toys ?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Yeah, pretty much. He gives sound reasons for questioning pretty much everything. His ideology also presents some pretty off-the-wall ideas, but obviously, you're not expected to accept them, just explore them yourself. Lots of resonance with Zen.

I would recommend you question the theory of evolution and see how
many holes you can find in it.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I would recommend you question the theory of evolution and see how
many holes you can find in it.

In turn, I recommend you go and get yourself educated and develop some integrity.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Very sorry for the late reply ! But what an essay that Alan Watts had written as revealed in that second hyperlink !! Ramakrishna Paramhans could not have said it better ! Well, if you are brought up on these thoughts, what else do you really need to form yourself ?
Foe a westerner, and an agnostic, you are certainly clued in and more importantly sympath ...[text shortened]... ou fond of playing with mud again and again ? God. tell me. why you are so fond of broken toys ?

...till we ask God in the words of our poet Shailendra :- God, tell me why are you fond of playing with mud again and again ? God. tell me. why you are so fond of broken toys ?

From there to Job is not a big stretch.

Dr. Seuss

Originally posted by josephw
Dr. Seuss

May I recommend Green Eggs and Ham? You might like it if you try it. Would you like to try it in a house, or how about with a mouse? Would you try it here or there or anywhere? Try it and you may I say.

Originally posted by whodey
May I recommend Green Eggs and Ham? You might like it if you try it. Would you like to try it in a house, or how about with a mouse? Would you try it here or there or anywhere? Try it and you may I say.

Green Eggs and Ham a la Our Lady of Weight Loss who Leaves No Moss as she Walks Her Talk

Ingredients: non-stick spray * 4 slices of Ham * 1 egg * 4 egg whites * 1 tablespoon Skim Milk * 1 drop of green food coloring! * salt n’ pepper to taste

Directions: Spray non-stick on large frying pan * heat over medium heat * toss ham slices on pan and brown until edges are slightly crisp * Remove ham from the pan * set aside. … THEN: in a medium sized mixing bowl, combine: eggs, milk, salt and pepper. * Beat with whisk until frothy. * Add drop of green food coloring (or two depending on how green you want to make it!) * Spray pan again; heat. * Add egg mixture to pan. * Stir the egg mixture with a spatula. Yup, scramble ‘em! * Transfer eggs to plate. * Place ham on plate! * Serve with whole wheat toast and orange juice!

A fantastically fun, healthy and happy birthday celebration! Serves 4.

Quoting: http://blog.beliefnet.com/ourladyofweightloss/2010/03/dr-seuss-birthday-10-quotes.html#ixzz1mEqQb4tw

Presumably the reference to Our Lady of Weight Loss qualifies this as a spiritual recipe.

Originally posted by rvsakhadeo
Very sorry for the late reply ! But what an essay that Alan Watts had written as revealed in that second hyperlink !! Ramakrishna Paramhans could not have said it better ! Well, if you are brought up on these thoughts, what else do you really need to form yourself ?
Foe a westerner, and an agnostic, you are certainly clued in and more importantly sympath ...[text shortened]... ou fond of playing with mud again and again ? God. tell me. why you are so fond of broken toys ?

I also read some Alan Watts long ago in college.

Originally posted by JS357
This thread is intended to let people identify and recommend writers and others who have been a formative figure in your life, someone whose works are publicly available, someone you would recommend to a young person as a worthwhile source of intelligent thought for his or her questioning mind.

Canadian historian and philosopher John Ralston Saul.

There have really been so many; and, at age 60, I hope all my remaining years will continue to be formative, so there likely will be more. One’s existential formation may never complete so long as one lives.

A book called Zen Diary by a philosopher named Paul Wienpahl turned me on to Zen, leading me to the likes of Alan Watts, Shunryu Suzuki (though he was Soto, and I am more Rinzai), Linchi, Seng Ts’an and the like—later the Taoism of Lao Tzu. A younger person (say, late teens) might like a book called Hardcore Zen: Punk Rock, Monster Movies & the Truth about Reality by Brad Warner (again, I recall him as being pretty Soto). Also, from the Advaita Vedanta tradition, though one who draws from the well of Buddhism too, Sri H.W.L. Poonja’s This: Prose and Poetry of Dancing Emptiness; like Lao Tzu or Seng Ts’an, it can profitably be read often.

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EDIT. An interim source: The Spanish existentialist philosopher Jose Ortega y Gasset, especially Some Lessons in Metaphysics; could include What is Philosophy as well, but that is a work of deliberately plodding pedagogy. (I don’t like his Revolt of the Masses so much.) Ortega’s perspectivism also has a non-dualist flavor, in his existential formulation: “Yo so yo y mi circunstancia.”

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I more recently discovered Wittgenstein: particularly of the later works such as Philosophical Investigations and On Certainty, though from time to time I will revisit the Tractatus. The first reference to Wittgensteain that I can recall was way back in Wienpahl's Zen Diary, which just goes to show how far those long waves can flow. Although Wittgenstein repudiated some of the features of the Tractatus (such as logical atomism, and the possibility of a logically perfect language), he did not repudiate everything. Bbarr, one of the many formative influences (for me) on here, once said that analytical philosophy is a means for “clearing away the brush”, in order that one might see what remains more clearly. Wittgenstein called this “showing the fly the way out of the fly bottle”. Often, the “brush” comes about from misapplication of language from one language game to another (e.g., from physics to metaphysics?); Wittgenstein’s later philosophy stayed within ordinary language. [I do not assume that I interpret Wittgenstein “correctly”—if there is such a thing; only that how I do read him has been formative for my own thinking.]

What remains after the analytical process might simply be ineffable. There is no reason to assume that the grammar of our consciousness is exhaustive of the syntax of reality (my metaphor). As Wittgenstein said in the final statement of the Tractatus: “Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must remain silent.” One of those sentiments that I do not think Wittgenstein repudiated. Zen again . . .

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EDIT: Thanks for this thread. Perhaps you have awakened me from my philosophical slumbers. I am revisiting Wittgenstein...

David Rattray was the pathfinder. Then came Le Comte de Lautréamont. Gérard de Nerval. Michael Moorcock. Angela Carter. JG Ballard. Gene Wolfe.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The Illuminatus trilogy is a classic.

The fornicating with the apple is one of my faves

Thanks to you and Avalanche for the Robert Anton Wilson reference.

I am partway through the Illuminatus trilogy. Wilson seems like a mashup of Kurt Vonnegut (The Sirens of Titan) and Hunter Thompson (Fear and Loathing...) with an anonymous porn author thrown in.

Here are two quotes gleaned so far, from the Dell edition:

"I was going to have to keep more of an eye on reality." (p. 77)

"If you work within the system, you come to one of the either/or choices that were implicit in the system from the beginning." (p. 86)

The latter quote concerned politics, but I like it WRT this forum. There is so much attention given here to the traditional theistic dualisms by both sides (the sides being created by buying into these dualisms) that there is little breathing space for any new thinking to break ground. The thread themes keep repeating themselves.

And as if to anticipate my reaction, the quote then goes on: "You're talking like a medieval serf, asking the first agnostic whether he believes in God or the Devil. We're outside the system's categories."

I have asked my Library to buy "Prometheus Rising."

Originally posted by JS357
Green Eggs and Ham a la Our Lady of Weight Loss who Leaves No Moss as she Walks Her Talk

Ingredients: non-stick spray * 4 slices of Ham * 1 egg * 4 egg whites * 1 tablespoon Skim Milk * 1 drop of green food coloring! * salt n’ pepper to taste

Directions: Spray non-stick on large frying pan * heat over medium heat * toss ham slices on pan and brown unti ...[text shortened]... 4tw

Presumably the reference to Our Lady of Weight Loss qualifies this as a spiritual recipe.

sounds like a anarchist's souffle but I'll give it a go.