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22 May 15
Clearly, when God gave the ten commandments He told the Israelites that He was a jealous God. He commands that because He is this way we should have no other gods before Him.
"I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the slave house; You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol, nor the form of anything that is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water beneath the earth.
You shall not bow down to them and you shall not serve them; for I, Jehovah your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, to the third and fourth generation of those who hate Me.
Yet showing lovingkindness to thousands of generations to those who love Me and keep My commandments." (Exodus 20:2-6)
I would like to discuss the concept of "a jealous God" with any honest inquirers who find this concept of God being jealous over His people as problematic.
Richard Dawkins types and hard core atheists are not likely to get any help on this. Of course I cannot stop them from posting.
But anyone seeking some discussion about God's jealousy here maybe will find some new thoughts as to how to handle this matter.
22 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipNothing God tells us to do is bad for us, keeping us from other gods is no different.
Clearly, when God gave the ten commandments He told the Israelites that He was a jealous God. He commands that because He is this way we should have no other gods before Him.
[quote] [b] "I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the slave house; You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself an ...[text shortened]... ion about God's jealousy here maybe will find some new thoughts as to how to handle this matter.
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22 May 15
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, KellyJay.
Nothing God tells us to do is bad for us, keeping us from other gods is no different.
And this giving of the law was a real courtship of His people. It was God wooing a people to be a lover to Him. Of course He is jealous that they would have no other gods before Him.
It needs to be thought of as a young man courting a woman. He jealously wants her to only consider being romantic with him. He is jealous over her attention, over her love, which he is trying to cultivate.
It is not only good for us not to be ensnared with idols. It is better for a pure love affair between us and God that no other idols or gods come in between God and His collective lover.
Originally posted by sonshipGenuine question for you.
Clearly, when God gave the ten commandments He told the Israelites that He was a jealous God. He commands that because He is this way we should have no other gods before Him.
[quote] [b] "I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the slave house; You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself an ...[text shortened]... ion about God's jealousy here maybe will find some new thoughts as to how to handle this matter.
The feelings of jealousy are closely intertwined with envy, which as you know is one of the seven deadly sins. With this scripture is the God of the Bible admitting he is a sinner? How can a perfect being suffer from such a human emotion?
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Originally posted by Proper Knob
Genuine question for you.
The feelings of jealousy are closely intertwined with envy, which as you know is one of the seven deadly sins. With this scripture is the God of the Bible admitting he is a sinner? How can a perfect being suffer from such a human emotion?
When I was a young parent, I took my child to the doctor. The doctor put a little wooden slab into her mouth and said "Okay, Now say Ahhhh." He examined her throat.
Sometime latter I saw my child playing doctor at home with her even smaller brother. I would not have taken notice at all except that I saw her put something in his mouth. She was imitating the medical doctor. I of course warned her strictly, "Don't put anything into your brother's mouth like that! That is dangerous. Don't play that way."
Now what was appropriate for the adult medical doctor to do with his training and professional skills was good. It was not good, however, for one young child to play doctor this way, and put something into the mouth of another child.
This experience helped me to see that sometimes what is appropriate for one with one level of life is not appropriate for another with a vastly lower level of life. It is in fact dangerous.
I count God's command to not only be a manifestation of His love but also divinely therapeutic to human spiritual health. So the last commandment "Thou shalt not covet" or to want what another has in a jealous way, is a sin for man.
But for the Unique Creator and God to command that we have no other gods before Him, and that He is even jealous for our unmixed devotion, is righteous and also for our own healthiest human existence.
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Originally posted by Proper Knob
How can a perfect being suffer from such a human emotion?
There are many times in the Bible, even before the incarnation of Christ, that something God says reminds us of our own humanity. I think of these instances as manifesting that man is made in the image of God (Gen. 1:26).
The command not to covet is that last command and goes like this:
"You shall not covet your neighbor's house;
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife;
nor his male servant,
nor his female servant,
nor his ox,
nor his donkey,
nor anything that belongs to your neighbor." (Exodus 20:17)
In reality there is no other God. So God's jealousy over man's love is right. Any other thing we lift higher in importance to God can become an idol.
The jealousy of the one God who says "You shall have no other gods before Me ... for I, Jehovah your God, am a jealous God..." is a realistic and righteous desire that man be devoted to reality. There is in fact no other God.
So I think it is not exactly the same as His command that we not covet. But it looks similar because man was created in the image of God.
22 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipThe Greek word used to translate this idea is zelotes from where we get the word zealot. It does not have the same moral connotations as the word 'jealous' but means passion, zeal, admiration. I do not know the Hebrew word used here but the Greek at least does not suggest any blameworthy vice of God.
Clearly, when God gave the ten commandments He told the Israelites that He was a jealous God. He commands that because He is this way we should have no other gods before Him.
[quote] [b] "I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the slave house; You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make for yourself an ...[text shortened]... ion about God's jealousy here maybe will find some new thoughts as to how to handle this matter.
22 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipWhat you are saying is that even though we, as humans, are instructed in scripture to avoid submitting to the actions of jealousy/envy and wrath/anger (because let's not forget that anger/wrath is another deadly sin the God of the Bible suffers from) God can do what he likes. 'Do as I say and not as I do'.Genuine question for you.
The feelings of jealousy are closely intertwined with envy, which as you know is one of the seven deadly sins. With this scripture is the God of the Bible admitting he is a sinner? How can a perfect being suffer from such a human emotion?
When I was a young parent, I took my child to the doctor. The doctor p ...[text shortened]... jealous for our unmixed devotion, is righteous and also for our own healthiest human existence.
22 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipI'm not really sure how that answers my question. The God of the OT admits to essentially moral failings ie, sin - jealousy/envy and anger/wrath. How can an alleged perfect being suffer from emotional moral failings?How can a perfect being suffer from such a human emotion?
There are many times in the Bible, even before the incarnation of Christ, that something God says reminds us of our own humanity. I think of these instances as manifesting that man is made in the image of God [b](Gen. 1:26).
The command not to covet is that last command a ...[text shortened]... His command that we not covet. But it looks similar because man was created in the image of God.[/b]
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Originally posted by dominuslatrunculorumThe interesting thing is that in some of the prophets God does set up an analogy between a husband with a wayward and cheating wife and Him with Israel.
The Greek word used to translate this idea is zelotes from where we get the word zealot. It does not have the same moral connotations as the word 'jealous' but means passion, zeal, admiration. I do not know the Hebrew word used here but the Greek at least does not suggest any blameworthy vice of God.
The prophet Hosea comes immediately to mind.
"At the beginning of Jehovah's speaking to Hosea, Jehovah said to Hosea, Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotries ... for the land is entirely given over to harlotry. So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblam." (See Hosea 1:2)
God explains throughout the book that Israel has gone after other lovers just like an unfaithful wife. He drives home that His love for his people is exactly as a husband for a wayward wife given over to harlotries.
He wanted to prophet and the Israelites to feel and understand how God felt. He is a jealous God who wants His people to have no other gods to chase after. He is our Husband.
Isaiah 54:5 -
English Standard Version
For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
New American Standard Bible
"For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD of hosts; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth."
Sometime we can even remind the Lord as a woman would remind her husband - "Lord, You're jealous. Thankyou God. I know you love me because, Lord, You're Jealous."
Reminding ourselves that our God is jealous (however you think this should be taken) does help us to appreciate His guarding affection toward us. He wants our love as Hosea wanted his Gomer to be faithful.
22 May 15
Originally posted by sonshipSo I don't think that the word 'jealous' is a helpful translation. I think a better way to describe the marital relationship of God to His people would be 'devoted'.
The interesting thing is that in some of the prophets God does set up an analogy between a husband with a wayward and cheating wife and Him with Israel.
The prophet Hosea comes immediately to mind.
[quote] [b]"At the beginning of Jehovah's speaking to Hosea, Jehovah said to Hosea, Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotries ... for the land is entirel ...[text shortened]... te His guarding affection toward us. He wants our love as Hosea wanted his Gomer to be faithful.
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Originally posted by dominuslatrunculorum
So I don't think that the word 'jealous' is a helpful translation. I think a better way to describe the marital relationship of God to His people would be 'devoted'.
He certainly is faithful and devoted. That is for sure.
So you mean you prefer something like -
" ... for I, Jehovah your God, am a [devoted] God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me. etc. "
Well let's see if there is possibly an English translation using another word there, like "devoted".
I found these variants in English on Jealous -
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Never worship them or serve them, because I, the LORD your God, am a God who does not tolerate rivals. I punish children for their parents' sins to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.
Young's Literal Translation
Thou dost not bow thyself to them, nor serve them: for I, Jehovah thy God, am a zealous God, charging iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third generation, and on the fourth, of those hating Me,
Young's Literal Translation comes the closest of the ones on Bible Hub. The others have English "jealous".
At any rate God is jealous or devoted like the Husband that He is to His people. And He wants His people there in Exodus to keep His law primarily by loving Him and loving Him faithfully.
The giving of the law on Mt. Sinai is really a courtship of a loving and romantic God towards His redeemed people.
There is another side of the giving of the law which Paul called a "ministry of condemnation" . But if we are enlarged somewhat we see also that this giving of the ten commandments was like a suitor romantically courting a lover.
In the first five commandments God does establish atmosphere of "devotion," as you prefer, and an atmosphere of love by reminding them up front that He is their God, Jehovah by name, who brought them up out of bondage:
" I am Jehovah your god, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the slave house; You shall have no other gods before Me."
Can't you picture a man courting a woman that he loves saying something like this? - "I am the one for you. Put away all your pictures of other boyfriends and other lovers. I won't tolerate you having selfies of other dudes. I'm your man from now on. I am devoted to you. I am jealous over you and want you all to myself."
22 May 15
Originally posted by Proper KnobThe feelings of jealousy are also due to a loving relationship, envy isn't what I feel if some
Genuine question for you.
The feelings of jealousy are closely intertwined with envy, which as you know is one of the seven deadly sins. With this scripture is the God of the Bible admitting he is a sinner? How can a perfect being suffer from such a human emotion?
moron hits on my wife right in front of me.
22 May 15
This is my FIRST post.....I read the Spirituality threads often, but never reply. However, this issue is something that has plagued me for about 10 years now. I have always considered myself a Christian....but blindly went through life not realizing that a lot of Christians worship Jesus as God. You may laugh, but I was missing that part until about 10 years ago. The point is that I struggle tremendously with trying to understand the Trinity.......who is who??? If Jesus is God (which I admit my lack of knowing), then we are okay.....but, if He is not....then we are in complete violation of the 1st Commandment. Sometimes I think that God sent His Son to die for us, but did NOT expect us to start worshiping Jesus as Him???? I want to know the truth!!!! I want to know who I am supposed to worship. I have investigated the matter to no avail. There are opinions on both sides. But, if I care at all about God wanting me to only worship Him, then I want to know WHO is Him.
With that said.....I am troubled by the knowledge that God has what appears to be human emotions. If He can be jealous, and angry, and vengeful....then I feel screwed when I die and have to 'explain' myself. If He is all loving, then I have a slight chance.
Just another thought.....If evil exists in this world (quite obvious it does)....then God created evil as well. If Hitler is evil, God had something to do with that, because Hitler could not have been evil without its creation.
I am quite confused about my faith these days, so take it easy on me. I must admit, that at this time....I am certain that there is a Creator.....but I feel that I don't know anymore who that Creator is.