A Jealous God

Originally posted by chaney3
I have been doing battle with this for 10 years......I have spent many, many hours reading scripture and books, and talking with Priests and Pastors.....to NO avail. I am NOT going to find my answer in 10 minutes now because I read some scriptures.

By the way, I have studied the Old Testament, and NOWHERE in there do the prophets talk about God Himself b ...[text shortened]... Commandment. If that did not exist, then would the Jesus/God issue really matter, probably not.

I would not believe in the teachings of divegeester. If i were you, I would study what jesus said about hell and the Lake of Fire by reading the New Testament of Christianity.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
No sir, i do not. Nor would i attempt it with truth.

One dreams though of capturing you in a book. Origin of the species would be apt.

Then it seems silly to talk about capturing the wind in a book. Perhaps you should get psychological help.

http://drphil.com/therapist/

Originally posted by RJHinds
Then it seems silly to talk about capturing the wind in a book. Perhaps you should get psychological help.

http://drphil.com/therapist/

You are the authority sir on talking silly.

(Evidence can be provided upon request).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
You are the authority sir on talking silly.

(Evidence can be provided upon request).

Maybe, but i don't need any psychological help from Dr. Phil. 😏

Originally posted by Proper Knob
We almost always disagree, that's the fun. 🙂

I missed the word 'on' the first time round. Now it makes sense.

Do you see how it applies or could that would not mean some flaw in the way that God
views our relationship with Him than?

Originally posted by chaney3
I have been doing battle with this for 10 years......I have spent many, many hours reading scripture and books, and talking with Priests and Pastors.....to NO avail. I am NOT going to find my answer in 10 minutes now because I read some scriptures.

By the way, I have studied the Old Testament, and NOWHERE in there do the prophets talk about God Himself b ...[text shortened]... Commandment. If that did not exist, then would the Jesus/God issue really matter, probably not.

I gave you a handful of quite thought provoking scriptures from both the NT and OT which point directly with some wider Biblical and gospel relevant context about God being revealed through the Messianic Christ, but you don't seem to be bothered to discuss them. Furthermore I have given you advice as to the route to this truth which is that it is : spiritually revealed through prayer.

I politely suggest that if this matter concerns you as much as you are making out, then after ten years of chasing down other people seeking truth in thier opinion, then my option above may present a refreshing and productive vein of inquiry.

Happy to discuss further either publicly or privately. All the best.

Originally posted by chaney3
[

....I think we need to make sure we are correct....hence the 1st Commandment. Todays Jewish people only worship the God of Abraham, as in the Old Testament.....they do NOT have this issue. What if Jesus is truly the Son of God, and God is actually....God, and wants his due credit and worship?? It doesn't take away from Jesus's deity, as God's son (no mention of God's wife, or how Jesus came to be in the Heavens). 'sonship' asked the question....is God's jealousy problematic? Yes, to me it most certainly is, and I want to be correct and not have God unleash his jealousy, or wrath.

I am sorry if I am not clearly making my point, this Trinity issue causes me grief and I seem to write with frustration.

When you speak of getting it "correct" do you see the matter of your sins being forgiven as related to that?

I ask because, to my surprise when I did a lot of philosophizing and arguing about God with a few Christian friends, I found that the main obstacle causing me not to know God was my sins.

You mentioned frustration about God seemingly making it impossible to know Him. I found that for tasting God, touching God and coming into an intimate fellowship with God was hindered by the need for me to confess my sins to God.

In "getting it correct" and in getting around your theological obstacle course to know God, what place is there for you confessing to God the need to be forgiven and cleansed of your sins?

I wrote you about telling the Lord Jesus that you love Him.
I wrote to you about telling God that you love Him.
You made no comment about this at all yet.
I imagine that you may be more preoccupied with trying to get it settled in your mind about the deity of Christ or the nature of God.

The "impossibility" of knowing God which you spoke of is mainly the impossibility of God being one with a man or women because they have not been justified from their sins through the blood of Christ. Sin is the real impossible barrier.

Consider Isaiah 59:2

"No, Jehovah's hand is not short that it cannot save; Nor is His ear so heavy that it cannot hear. But your iniquites have become a separation between you and your God, And your sins have made hidden His face from you so that He does not hear."

I did a lot of debating, arguing, and philsophizing about the relationship of Jesus to God. But I eventually found out that the separation cutting off me knowing God personally was my sins.

Like smoky soot darkens a window so that no light can shine through, my unconfessed sins caused me not to be able to know God. The "impossibility" was not so much about figuring out the nature of the Trinity. But in coming to Jesus Christ for partaking of His cleansing redemption obliterated the separation preventing me from knowing God.

The window blackened with soot was cleansed with the heavenly "Windex" of the blood of Jesus. Then it was not impossible to know God. It was then quite easy to come forward to His presence. And much more it was easy to say "Lord Jesus, I LOVE you." Even to say "My Father God, I LOVE you. I love you because now you are REAL to me."

Notice that I didn't launch into a debate with you about your inability to find where Jesus speaks of Him being God as well as man. Rather, I just relate that the "impossibility" of knowing God is that impossibility of us touching God subjectively apart from the forgiveness of our sins.

Have you made that step yet in confessing to God that you are a helpless offender of His law - a sinner? It is the blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us from all sins.

You may not overnight become an expert in explaining the nature of God. Who is? But in coming to God seeking the cleansing of your sins (the real barrier) you will have no problem in realizing that Jesus Christ is Divine.

The matter of the "impossibility" of knowing God is the impossibility of a holy and perfectly righteous God being one with the sinner's innermost being apart from the cleansing blood of Jesus being believed for justification of that sinner.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Do you see how it applies or could that would not mean some flaw in the way that God
views our relationship with Him than?

Not really. First off I don't see how a 'spirit' can have emotions.

I've been out with my girlfriend numerous times and guys have come up to her trying their luck. Just earlier this year I was packing my drum kit up at a gig as my girlfriend sat in the audience waiting for me to finish so we could go home. In the time it too, me to pack up my kit, about 10mins, two separate guys made their way over and tried their luck. Was I jealous? No. Did I immediately March over and 'claim my mate'? No. I find it quite amusing. We had a good chuckle in the car on the way home at the expense of those two chancers.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Not really. First off I don't see how a 'spirit' can have emotions.

I've been out with my girlfriend numerous times and guys have come up to her trying their luck. Just earlier this year I was packing my drum kit up at a gig as my girlfriend sat in the audience waiting for me to finish so we could go home. In the time it too, me to pack up my kit, ab ...[text shortened]... amusing. We had a good chuckle in the car on the way home at the expense of those two chancers.

Not sure why you'd think that? Have you examined many spirits to base that assumption
on, that they wouldn't have emotions?

Do you think you'd felt the same way had she responded differently to either of them,
since that is the type of thing that scripture is talking about? I trust my wife too, but still
would not be happy had someone tried something with her knowing she was my wife.

Originally posted by sonship
Clearly, when God gave the ten commandments He told the Israelites that He was a jealous God. He commands that because He is this way we should have no other gods before Him.

[quote] [b] "I am Jehovah your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the slave house; You shall have no other gods before Me.

You shall not make for yourself an ...[text shortened]... ion about God's jealousy here maybe will find some new thoughts as to how to handle this matter.

It's not the jealousy so much as what God does because of the jealousy. God sends down plagues, suffering and death because of his jealousy:

"for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth."

---Deuteronomy 6:15.

Any husband who says that would be considered a psycho.

Originally posted by vivify

It's not the jealousy so much as what God does because of the jealousy. God sends down plagues, suffering and death because of his jealousy:

"for the Lord your God in your midst is a jealous God—lest the anger of the Lord your God be kindled against you, and he destroy you from off the face of the earth."

---Deuteronomy 6:15.

I think this indicates the righteousness of this Jealous Husband. If you recall that He judged the Egyptians and the sinful inhabiting Canaanites of the land for their horrendous idolatry. It would be peculiarly biased if God withheld warnings and chastisement from Israel for doing the same.

And He said, If you will listen carefully to the voice of Jehovah your God and do what is right in His eyes and give ear to His commandments and keep all His statues, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have put on the Egyptians; for I am Jehovah who heals you. (Exodus 15:26)

The righteous God warns them that though Israel is His very own "peculiar treasure" IF they act as the other nations act, in sinfulness, they TOO could suffer the same kinds of punishments.

This is God warning them that though they are His people, He is also no respecter of persons. This became a sore lesson in the coming ages that Israel learned.

I noticed this when I read through the Bible. When they sinned profusely God even said "Ah, I will ease Myself of My adversaries, And I will avenge Myself of My enemies."

Grasp here the impartiality Yahweh here in His displeasure over the sins of Israel's failure in social justice in the land.

How the faithful city has become a harlot! She who was full of justice, she in whom righteousness once lodged, But now murderers!

Your silver has become dross;
Your wine diluted with water;
Your rulers are rebellious and companions of thieves.
They all love bribes and chase after rewards;

They do not defend the orphan,
Nor does the widow's plea come before them.

Hence, the Lord Jehovah of hosts, The Mighty One of Israel, declares; Ah, I will ease Myself of My adversaries, and I will avenge Myself of My enemies.

And I will turn My hand against you. I will thoroughly purge away your dross as with lye, And I will remove all your alloy. And I will restore your judges as at the first and your counselors as at the beginning.

And you will be called the city of righteousness, The faithful city. (Isaiah 1:21-26)

God takes their sins and their social injustice personally . He takes it as the unfaithfulness of His loving spouse.

At the same time we cannot deny that God displayed long periods of toleration and long-suffering. That's long periods. But times came when "Enough was enough".

Any husband who says that would be considered a psycho.

I don't see it that way at all.

What I see, all things considered, is a loving God who is also a holy and righteous God. He displays considerable toleration but warns that the forsaking of the covenant He made with them will not go without disciplinary consequences indefinitely.

In His courtship with Israel at Mt Sinai after His rescue of them from four centuries of brutal slavery and oppression, God lets them know what KIND of God He is. As He woos them to be His wife He also lays all the cards on the table. He lets them know what kind of Husband He is.

You may not like it, but passages like I just quoted show that this Husband has a hatred for injustice. It is not simply the anger of going after other gods to love them. It is also the accompanying social injustice issuing from the breaking of His law, that He righteously must bring consequences for.

The Gospels of would not make sense unless the ground work of God's in-toleration for sin was firmly established. The judgement of His Son on behalf of all mankind would not be so impressive without the hatred of God against man's sins was not first revealed.

If the message comes to you that Christ loved you and died for you and was judged by God for your sins, causes you to shrug, it is because you have not been impressed that your sins are so serious a matter before God.

Originally posted by divegeester

To understand the Godhead the start point is "hear oh Israel the Lord your God is ONE".

From there every single scripture must comply. Those others I used support the start point, yours don't.

Why is that the starting point ?
I think one could start from many other places as well.
Understand that I am not disagreeing with you per se. I am curious why you are so dogmatic that another passage could not serve as a "starting point" just as well.

I think one could start with wherever the Holy Spirit zapped a rhema word into your heart.

Why is Deut. 6:4 the exclusive starting point ?

Originally posted by sonship

So, God tells the Israelites that He is jealous God.

There are some parellels with human jealousy that it is hard to overlook. For example, God appears there to be, of all things, LONELY !

We normally, as theists anyway, would think of God as not needing anything or anybody. Isn't He perfect ? But for God to be a jealous God implies that once He obtains a counterpart, a spousal partner, His loneliness is so attended to that He jealously guards it.

While we normally think of God wanting servants, the truer intention is that He seeks a romantic counterpart with love in mind. He created man to gain a counterpart.

He is not primarily a fighter but a lover.
He is not primarily a master but a lover.
This means that God created man in the image of Himself as a lover. So He created us that we would love Him.

Why would God want to grant you eternal life unless He loved you to the extent that He desires to share forever loving you and you loving Him ?

In eternity God was alone; and we may even say that He was lonely. The angels did not fulfill this desire for love. The angels could not fulfill this desire somehow. Therefore God created man in His own image and according to His own being.

The jealous eternal God wants man to love Him. And the Bible concludes with a mutual relationship of love between God and mankind, those created to be His counterpart.

"And I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Rev. 21:2)