1. Subscribersonhouse
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    18 May '13 16:33
    Originally posted by sonship
    We'll look again at this objection.

    [quote]I believe God is too kind to let eternal torment happen. It just does not fit the picture I read of a loving Father, Merciful God. Yes, he is just and sin has consequences, but not eternal torment. This is something a demented person would do. It borders on hate, anger and vengeance.
    I know God has his day of ...[text shortened]... net -

    Verse 6 - [b]"Hallelujah! For the Lord God the Almighty reigns."
    [/b]
    You and billions of other people can try to WISH a god into existence but everyone on Earth doing so will not will such a god into existence. Your desire for there to be a lord, especially one so vindictive and cruel as yours is alleged to be, pronouncing women lower than men in one verse and touting their beauty in another, what you have at best is an insane god, an escapee from a godly insane asylum, a really really insane one that got loose and foisted itself on poor unsuspecting humans. That is the reality my friend.
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    18 May '13 16:38
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    You and billions of other people can try to WISH a god into existence but everyone on Earth doing so will not will such a god into existence. Your desire for there to be a lord, especially one so vindictive and cruel as yours is alleged to be, pronouncing women lower than men in one verse and touting their beauty in another, what you have at best is an insa ...[text shortened]... ne that got loose and foisted itself on poor unsuspecting humans. That is the reality my friend.
    Christians have created a god in the image of man only with an oversized and dangerous ego. They use the concept daily to feed their own egos by justifying greed and selfishness as being done in the name of their god. In truth, we have a lot of fundamentalist Christian folks who would love to force their religious views on everyone by inserting them into the laws of the land. Why be afraid of sharia law when we have our own home grown nuts trying to destroy our freedoms in the name of Christ.
  3. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    18 May '13 20:45
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Christians have created a god in the image of man only with an oversized and dangerous ego. They use the concept daily to feed their own egos by justifying greed and selfishness as being done in the name of their god. In truth, we have a lot of fundamentalist Christian folks who would love to force their religious views on everyone by inserting them into th ...[text shortened]... a law when we have our own home grown nuts trying to destroy our freedoms in the name of Christ.
    What he said🙂
  4. R
    Standard memberRemoved
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    19 May '13 06:063 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    You and billions of other people can try to WISH a god into existence but everyone on Earth doing so will not will such a god into existence. Your desire for there to be a lord, especially one so vindictive and cruel as yours is alleged to be, pronouncing women lower than men in one verse and touting their beauty in another, what you have at best is an insa ...[text shortened]... ne that got loose and foisted itself on poor unsuspecting humans. That is the reality my friend.
    This thread is on the subject matter of the title of the thread.
    I think you're drifting off.
  5. R
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    19 May '13 07:292 edits
    Do you think that those listening to Jesus speak of the wicked burning in gehenna thought he meant they would burn forever? Of course not, because they knew that the garbage they took to the city dump did not continue to exist in the fire without being consumed. Rather, it burned up, and was gone. Jesus used the word gehenna to illustrate that the wicked were like the garbage, refuse worthy only of destruction. The only reason the fire continued to burn was because the whole city kept throwing their garbage there. Likewise, when it has done its job, the lake of fire will be no more.

    We examine now the biblical usage of the word cursed as in Matthew 25:41 - "Then He will say also to on the left, Go away from Me, you who are CURSED, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (my emphasis)

    What is meant by cursed when it is absolute as above?

    The leading ideas seem two.
    1.) As to the person cursed. He is regarded as entirely vile, worthless, hateful, beyond recovery wicked.

    2.) As regards the person cursing. The cursed one is by him shut off from good, shut up to evil of every kind, devoted to vengeance, as deserving full wrath and hatred.

    The curse is here pronounced upon a person, not upon his special acts: Deut 27:14-26. While there is hope, there is to be measured retribution, and the person of the guilty is not declared vile.

    We can see that in the case of Israel's pardonable offence. The offender was not to be stricken more than 40 lashes. God prescribed forty lashes and no more for some pardonable offense; "lest they brother seem vile to thee: " (Deut. 25:3)

    But when the curse is pronounced, the offender is declared utterly vile and beyond recovery. The feelings of the one cursing are indicated in Deut. 7:25,26.

    "The graven images of their gods shall you burn with fire: you shall not desire the silver or gold that is one them, nor take it to yourself, lest you be snared therein; for it is an [i]abomination to the Lord your God. Neither shall you bring an abomination unto your house, lest you be a cursed thing like it: but you shall utterly detest it, and you shall utterly abhor it, for it is a CURSED thing."

    Christ became a CURSE for the sinner in order to save us from being cursed. "Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse on our behalf ..." (Galatians 3:13a)

    He died under the wrath of divine judgment for our sins that we might not become accursedly guilty under the law of God.

    The feelings of God toward that which is cursed is seen in the Deuteronomy passage above -

    an abomination,
    detestable,
    abhorable

    Jesus described His crucifixion for man's sins as Moses lifting up the brass serpent in the wilderness. This is a symbol of Satan.

    "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that every one who believes into Him may have eternal life.

    For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one who believes into Him would not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14,15)


    God so loved the sinners while they are still in a pardonable state that He sent His only begotten sinless and righteous Son to die in the form of the cursed Satan - as the lifted up brass serpent. He who believes is given eternal life for he is justified from all sins.

    But in the Deuteronomy passage God's hatred for the CURSED thing, the idolatrous thing, is seen. There God warns the people not to touch the cursed thing lest they should partake of God's infinite displeasure against it.

    For that would attach to all that identified themselves with it. We see latter how Achan brought the Lord's wrath on himself and his family Joshua 6:17-26.

    The recoverable offender is punished with lashes with a limit so that he does not become VILE or a CURSE. The unrecoverable offender becomes such as the Bible pronounces -

    "Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

    The word accursed is also used towards those who preach another Gospel besides that preached by the apostles -

    "As we have said before, now also I say again, If anyone announces to you a gospel beyond that which you have received, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:9)

    To reject the love of the Lord Jesus will bring down a curse upon the unreconciled refuser as well -

    "If anyone does not love the Lord, let him be accursed! The Lord comes." (First Corinthians 16:22)

    In Matthew 25:31-46 the Judge is Jesus Christ. And He knows perfectly the condition of those standing before Him at that time. He pronounces these sinners as cursed, beyond recovery evil, vile, abhorrent, and devoted to just vengeance. This condition abides as long as the wickedness of the wicked abides. It is irreversible as the blessing of the blessed.

    But the blessing on the blessed is forever: the curse then upon the guilty is for ever also. The Annihilationist wants to take the cursed here out from under the curse by making them NOTHING. For nothing cannot be cursed. Nothing cannot be an object of vengeance or displeasure from God anymore than NOTHING can be a vessel of wickedness.

    1.) The coming OUT of the fire is a termination of "eternal punishment"

    2.) The going OUT of the fire is a termination of "eternal punishment"

    3.) The passing into non-existence of the cursed is ALSO the termination of their "eternal punishment" .

    All these wishful maneuvers of the Annihilationist render "eternal punishment" in Matthew 25:41 not eternal punishment. But heaven and earth will pass away but the word of Christ shall not pass away.

    So TODAY we need Christ to save us from the curse as it is announced in Galatians 3:13 .
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