1. Illinois
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    01 Feb '10 05:14
    Where do you think Paul contradicts Jesus?
  2. Illinois
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    01 Feb '10 05:50
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    I'd have thought this would have answered your question:
    "That you believe Paul is a testament, no doubt, to your desire for cheap salvation which ran contrary to the teachings of Jesus."
    Where, in scripture, do you think Paul taught "cheap salvation"?
  3. Standard membermenace71
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    01 Feb '10 05:56
    Also if Paul was trying to be a politician what a poor job. The power thing? Man he nearly got killed was shipped wrecked and on & on for what? Well it was not a cheap Gospel that's for sure.





    Manny
  4. Account suspended
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    01 Feb '10 06:00
    Paul was directly commissioned by the resurrected Christ to fulfil the Christian obligation to preach the good news of Gods Kingdom, a purpose for which he worked tirelessly. I have as yet to come across a contradiction with Christ's teachings, its just the usual nonsense, he was a misogynist, blah de blah.
  5. Illinois
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    01 Feb '10 06:02
    Originally posted by menace71
    Also if Paul was trying to be a politician what a poor job. The power thing? Man he nearly got killed was shipped wrecked and on & on for what? Well it was not a cheap Gospel that's for sure.





    Manny
    Good point!
  6. Standard membermenace71
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    01 Feb '10 06:151 edit
    I can see were some my take issue on certain things Paul said like concerning women.
    I think you have to take it context of the culture however. The only other conflict I think is the so called Pauline vs James concepts of grace and works but I think a clear understanding of scripture puts it to rest. I can understand one aspect of what Thinkofone is saying as far a cheap gospel and armchair Christians but not all believe this way.



    Manny
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    01 Feb '10 10:24
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    Where do you think Paul contradicts Jesus?
    A better question is, what was Paul fighting against as a Jew in persecuting the church before his conversion? What was he converted into being?
  8. Donationrwingett
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    01 Feb '10 11:23
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Christianity
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    01 Feb '10 14:271 edit
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    Where, in scripture, do you think Paul taught "cheap salvation"?
    It is an excellent question.

    As a matter of fact when I once looked up all the usages of "eternal life" or "salvation" by Paul specifically, it seemed to me that the bulk of them taught of a culmination to a process rather than a easy freebie.

    It was a while ago. I remember being surprised at the result.
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    01 Feb '10 14:51
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    Where do you think Paul contradicts Jesus?
    Jesus taught man must follow the law. Paul said man was not under the law. Jesus’s followers felt so strong about this that they wanted to place Paul on trial as a Covent breaker.
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    01 Feb '10 15:451 edit
    Originally posted by Thomas Lavery
    Jesus taught man must follow the law. Paul said man was not under the law. Jesus’s followers felt so strong about this that they wanted to place Paul on trial as a Covent breaker.
    Firstly, Jesus taught His disciples that they must ABIDE IN HIM -

    "Abide in Me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.

    I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing." (John 15:4,5)


    This abiding in Jesus is even the more a demand after His resurrection. He is alive. He is living. He is the life giving Holy Spirit - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

    As life giving Spirit He imparts the divine life into those who abide in Him. He is the living Person as a realm and a sphere that man may abide in His constant presence. As the true Vine the riches of the vine flow into the abiding branches. And without the true vine the branches can do NOTHING.

    PAUL .... taught essentially the same thing in his 13 or so epistles. The disciples of Jesus have to ABIDE in the Spirit of Christ and allow the Spirit of Christ to abide in them.

    He constantly draws attention to this fact that Christ is alive and can live in His believers and they in Him:

    "Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" (2 Cor. 13:5)
  12. Illinois
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    01 Feb '10 21:46
    Originally posted by Thomas Lavery
    Jesus taught man must follow the law. Paul said man was not under the law. Jesus’s followers felt so strong about this that they wanted to place Paul on trial as a Covent breaker.
    On the contrary, Paul taught that man is indeed held to the standard of God's law: "As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law" (Rom. 2:12). Those who accused Paul of teaching his followers to abuse grace, e.g., "let us do evil that good may come" (Rom. 3:8), did so slanderously.

    What Paul did teach was that those who are controlled by the Spirit of God, i.e., those born again from above (John 3:5-6) are no longer "under the law" because the law of God is written on their hearts (Rom. 2:15) and fulfilled in their Spirit-controlled lives:

    "For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit" (Romans 8:3-4).


    All this leads up to Jaywill's last post regarding "abiding" in Christ.
  13. Standard memberknightmeister
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    01 Feb '10 23:04
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    Where, in scripture, do you think Paul taught "cheap salvation"?
    [/b]

    Where, in scripture, do you think Paul taught "cheap salvation"?


    It doesn't. It's not there. But ToOne will conjure it up somewhere in his rigid mind like a desperate mirage of water to quench his thirst for Paul bashing. He'll find the one verse somewhere that he thinks he can grind his axe on. It's not even a bet.

    It's entirely ToOne's interpretation. He sees what he wants to see. He plays the cool exterior of objectivity like a poker faced actor , but underneath he has no interest in fair debate or objectivity. Not one moment of really serious consideration of someone else's post or argument. No doubts expressed nor chinks in the armour. No admission of uncertainty. The path is clear, the way forward pre-determined......ToOne must prevail.

    Let's face it , is there even one poster on this forum who will be able say that ToOne has seriously taken onboard something they have said (apart from those things he already agrees with) ? Anyone? He's just not interested!

    This is the illusion that I am moving beyond. If he posted in a rabid fashion spouting out frothy mouthed prejudiced anti-Paulian insults we would all dismiss him in a second and not bother. However , because he talks with a form of pseudo-intellectual forumspeak we hang on naively to the idea that he just , just might listen to some reason. But underneath , I fear , lurks deep rage at Christendom and all things Christian. Hidden maybe even from himself.

    Alas , I have seen past the mirage and the bubble is burst. What we should all be asking is who in the church messed with his head and why?

    (or maybe why we bother any more?)

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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    01 Feb '10 23:15
    Originally posted by knightmeister


    Where, in scripture, do you think Paul taught "cheap salvation"?


    It doesn't. It's not there. But ToOne will conjure it up somewhere in his rigid mind like a desperate mirage of water to quench his thirst for Paul bashing. He'll find the one verse somewhere that he thinks he can grind his axe on. It's not even a bet.

    It's entir ...[text shortened]... ther any more?)

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz[/b]
    where is the great man? shall he enter the fray while we are waiting, polishing cyber rockets, locked on and ready to launch, or shall we give him time and space with which to explain his assertions, for surely they need some form of explanation. The consensus of all is that there are no contradictions and even those which may be construed as contradictions are easily remedied. I really wonder what he shall say.
  15. Standard membermenace71
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    01 Feb '10 23:21
    Experience should teach him that lesson! He will not answer if he indeed sins still. One wrathful answer by him will prove that he is indeed a sinner like the rest of us. Paul said Should we sin all the more that grace may abound all the more? May it never be He said. I was thinking Paul eventually became a martyr for the sake and will of Christ. Not a cheap Gospel at all!!



    Manny
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