Originally posted by Conrau K [b]Clearly crying 'Lord, Lord' is not enough, which is what confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord amounts to.
No. What Jesus means here is that those who cry out to him for mercy will not receive it. It is not a confession of faith in Jesus Christ but a plea for clemency. Furthermore, when Paul wrote about 'confessing with your mouth', the ea ...[text shortened]... ring a time of intense persecution in which confession could be fatal. This is hardly cheap.[/b]
The point was that both crying 'Lord, Lord' and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord are just talk. In the passage from Matthew, Jesus teaches that you have to walk the walk.
Originally posted by Conrau K And Paul affirms all these points.
If you are referring to Romans 2, see the "blood sacrifice" thread. If you have something definitive, then by all means start a thread on it so that those who believe in a flavor of cheap salvation having roots in the teachings of Paul can be straightened out. I'd be all for it.
Originally posted by knightmeister There is nothing in the story of the thief that precludes the idea of him having become righteous between the time of his criminal offense to the time he was crucified.
-----------ToOne--------------------
What a kop out. What a wild speculation.
If that's what happened , then what inspired such a transformation in the thief so that he could c ...[text shortened]... ards very low.
See ya --I'm off to grab next door's DVD player..........LOL
Freaky had presented that presumably as an example of Jesus granting cheap salvation. The reality is that Jesus does not give His motivation or explain the criteria used for His judgment. I was pointing this out.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne [b]In my way of looking at things I dont make some things out to be more difficult than other things. The Way is not hard or easy.
Are you sure? My post was in response to the following statement / question from you:
"The faith to realize God is imminent and not just some story written in a book is much more difficult to practice than anything else really. Dont you think , ToOne?"[/b]
You got me there. Still I stand by my words but with this qualification: In the beginning some things may seem harder than others but furthur down the track we see that nothing is easy or hard. Does that put my words into better context of what I'm trying to say?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Freaky had presented that presumably as an example of Jesus granting cheap salvation. The reality is that Jesus does not give His motivation or explain the criteria used for His judgment. I was pointing this out.
It doesn't matter because all the thief had to do was to say that he deserved to be punished and ask Jesus to remember him.....and Hey presto! salvation is gained.
No walking the walk or anything....just a few words on a cross.
The thief hardly hits the mark for "expensive" salvation , and yet he still got it.
That means that even if I am a liar and unrighteous it doesn't matter as long as I admit that I deserve to be punished and ask Jesus to remember me. Not that hard.
I'm sure many serial killers have done similar things walking up to be executed. How do you make sense of Jesus granting salvation on such a cheap basis? It must irritate you somewhat eh?
BTW- I'm off to sleep with my mate's wife - no worries I'll just ask Jesus to remember me and admit I deserve punishment and it'll be Ok.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne The point was that both crying 'Lord, Lord' and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord are just talk. In the passage from Matthew, Jesus teaches that you have to walk the walk.
The point was that both crying 'Lord, Lord' and confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord are just talk.
------------ToOne---------
And saying "remember me when you come into your kingdom" isn't???
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne Classic. Ultimately this reflects position of Paulians whether they are in a state of denial about it or not.
Are you not able to spot a bit of satire and sarcasm when you see it? Your mind is so limited! It's a rhetorical question aimed at you.
The fact that you thought I was actually serious ( or maybe you didn't and just playing counter sarcasm?) says a lot about your mentality.
I know why Jesus's words have authority , I just want to know why you give them authority over Paul.
Think about it you silly man. You have been going on about Jesus's trachings for years now but not once have you said why Jesus is so important and authoritative.
So , why do you give authority to Jesus' teachings? Afterall , he was just a man wasn't he? (satire) Why should we listen to him over Paul who is another man? (more satire)
Originally posted by karoly aczel You got me there. Still I stand by my words but with this qualification: In the beginning some things may seem harder than others but furthur down the track we see that nothing is easy or hard. Does that put my words into better context of what I'm trying to say?
In a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
History has shown that people are more than content to fall short of the above if they believe that "salvation" can be had with them doing something less.
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne In a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
History has shown that people are more than content to fall short of the above if they believe that "salvation" can be had with them doing something less.
In a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
----ToOnE-----------------
eR........thief?
Did you forget about him or have you cut out that particular page from your Bible?
Thieving and then talking to Jesus before you die - not exactly expensive salvation eh?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne In a way. However, for "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" one must become righteous, i.e., one must become one with God, one must follow the will of God, one cannot continue to commit sin, etc. Anything that falls short of this is "cheap salvation".
History has shown that people are more than content to fall short of the above if they believe that "salvation" can be had with them doing something less.
Well I guess what you are trying to say is that "cheap salvation" is not salvation at all. Not that I really like to use the word "salvation", but I get the gist of what you're saying.
ThinkofZero would've been my handle 🙂
Originally posted by karoly aczel Well I guess what you are trying to say is that "cheap salvation" is not salvation at all. Not that I really like to use the word "salvation", but I get the gist of what you're saying.
ThinkofZero would've been my handle 🙂
Yeah, that's what puts the "cheap" in "cheap salvation."
I'm thinking I could have gone a couple of decades and not come up with anything even remotely resembling "karoly aczel" for my handle 🙂
I think the thief was fully aware of his situation. I think He was granted insight about Christ that day. The thief was a criminal he knew Christ was not. The thief knew that he deserved what he got. He even said to the other criminal on a cross do you not fear God? The other was cursing at Jesus to come down off the cross and save himself. Also just because Jesus granted the thief salvation that day in no way makes it cheap. Christ took on the punishment and paid for ours sins that day!! It was very costly but the true believer knows this!! 🙂 So continue to spout off how cheap it is or whatever. The apostle Paul also knew that it was not a cheap salvation. He had to suffer the sufferings of Christ because Christ made Paul do this. It's so easy to judge you need to read closer what Paul says. Paul was used by Christ He was an instrument in the Hands of God. I think I would listen to Paul before Thinkofone. Paul would tell you to obey Christ. You have a real bad hang up about Paul. What weird cult do you belong to anyway?
Originally posted by menace71 I think the thief was fully aware of his situation. I think He was granted insight about Christ that day. The thief was a criminal he knew Christ was not. The thief knew that he deserved what he got. He even said to the other criminal on a cross do you not fear God? The other was cursing at Jesus to come down off the cross and save himself. Also just becau ...[text shortened]... st. You have a real bad hang up about Paul. What weird cult do you belong to anyway?
Manny
The point, I think, is that salvation* is cheap for the one getting saved, not necessarily for Jesus.
However, when you think about it in more detail, what really was sacrificed? It was not Jesus' life, because he got that back in 3 days. Nor would he fear death, because he knew he would be resurrected.
Other than having a really bad weekend, what did he lose?
* - Evangelicals are always telling people that they just need to believe in Jesus and pray that one little prayer and PRESTO!~ - saved.
05 Feb '10 19:21
A penny for TinkOfOne's thoughts
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